Tomcats gone by fall of 2006

On 6/17/04 9:05 AM, in article ,
"Pechs1" wrote:

gaepps- The D is an incredible airplane the way it is but the "good stuff"
like
upgrades to radar and such aren't what's killing it as much as a lack
of spares of the little stuff like valves, relays and widgets. BRBR

Incredible compared to the F-14A, but here in 2004, it is miles behind other
aircraft of the day, both US and 'other'.

Like I have said, it should have been the F-14E, back in the 80's when Reagan
$$ was a flowin'. It languished, became stale. The 'D' is better but a
compromise from day one. When at VX-4, in the late
80's, I saw the 'D' at VX-4, also saw a brief about the F-15E. Embarassing
when
you compare the two.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Not to mention the fact that there wasn't enough money for AMRAAM on the
F-14. That hurt too.

--Woody

On 6/17/04 7:11 AM, in article , "John
Carrier" wrote:

From what I understand the F/A-18E/F has slightly less range than the
Tomcat, but (with ATFLIR and the HMCS) is a much more capable Strike
Fighter... not to mention its much better maintenance numbers and radar.

Kinda sad, 30 years design progress and we get an airframe that can't exceed
... or even match ... the Turkey's performance (except at high alfa ... big
whoop!). Wouldn't have been a big deal to retrofit advanced WCS/Radar
capability. Of course the maintainability could not have been solved
without a clean sheet of paper redesign (pretty much what the E/F is
compared to the original Bug anyway).

R / John



You know me, John. Kool-Aid drinker. I'm telling you though. 2v1 or 1v1,
that high alpha's a big positive deal--against F-14's, F-15's, and F-16's.

Admittedly, that low top speeds a big negative deal too. Gotta stay and
fight. Can't run.

--Woody

(Pechs1) wrote in message ...
kboatright- How does the range of the F-18 E/F compare with the F-14 Bombcat,
with both
carrying equivalent attack loads? BRBR

Good point but the answer isn't the F-14D. NAVAIR missed the 'boat' in the 80s,
when everything was being upgraded, new models introduced while the F-14
languished. It 'should' have been the USN version of the F-15E, the 'strike
Turkey' but wasn't, isn't.

The F-14D was a compromise from day 1, and it pales in comparison to some of
the other modern aircraft, many of which were much older, like the F-15E.

It needs to go. Upgrading the F-14 is just not possible today.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer



I thought the A and B models were gonna go first. Wern't the Ds gonna
stick around till the Navy JSF comes online? Speaking of the JSF does
the Navy really want it? They've already got a medium range strike
fighter in the shape of the super hornet whats gonna be the F-35's
job? short range strike fighter and fast FAC?

You know me, John. Kool-Aid drinker. I'm telling you though. 2v1 or
1v1,
that high alpha's a big positive deal--against F-14's, F-15's, and F-16's.

Admittedly, that low top speeds a big negative deal too. Gotta stay and
fight. Can't run.

Yep, and in the real world it's the guy that's not part of your personal 1v1
that gets his silver star equivalent while you were dazzling his buddy.
Great fun, great way to be a target, great way to activate your SGLI.

R / John

From: (Prowlus)
Date: 6/17/2004 16:14 Pacific Daylight Time

I thought the A and B models were gonna go first.

The A's are gone w/ 211, and supposedly 31 (w/ the D) will be the last to
convert.

The compressed time-frame really means it doesn't matter which airframe is
last.

Wern't the Ds gonnastick
around till the Navy JSF comes online?

Already the JSF has slipped. As has been mentioned, it all comes down to money
in any event.

Even the S-3 retirement has been pushed forward.

MW

"Mike Weeks" wrote in message
...
From: (Prowlus)
Date: 6/17/2004 16:14 Pacific Daylight Time

I thought the A and B models were gonna go first.

The A's are gone w/ 211, and supposedly 31 (w/ the D) will be the last to
convert.

The compressed time-frame really means it doesn't matter which airframe is
last.

Wern't the Ds gonnastick
around till the Navy JSF comes online?

Already the JSF has slipped. As has been mentioned, it all comes down to
money
in any event.

Even the S-3 retirement has been pushed forward.

MW

All the O&MN and COW funding issues will be solved by BRAC. OBTW, Rummies
got a couple acres of swampland in Florida he's trying to sell too.

R / John

John- Unfortunately nobody of significance
bothered to ask the question. BRBR

I think the question was asked, certainly by the F-4 guys that ended up in the
F-14. Too many 0-6 and above types weren't listening tho.

NAVAIR/DCNO-Air types.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

bfoong- I thought the A and B models were gonna go first. Wern't the Ds gonna
stick around till the Navy JSF comes online? BRBR

The 'D' was essentially an 'A/B' airframe with some whizbangery avionics wise.
It still is an OLD design that is really hard to maintain.

Speaking of the JSF does
the Navy really want it? BRBR

It's gonna need something to replace the 'Bug', which is now an old design.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Doug- Not to mention the fact that there wasn't enough money for AMRAAM on
the
F-14. That hurt too. BRBR

Concur. Even the USAF F-16 weenies got AMRAAM, along with AIM-7-
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Prowlus wrote:
I thought the A and B models were gonna go first. Wern't the Ds gonna
stick around till the Navy JSF comes online? Speaking of the JSF does
the Navy really want it? They've already got a medium range strike
fighter in the shape of the super hornet whats gonna be the F-35's
job? short range strike fighter and fast FAC?

The F-35C has a greater range than the Super Hornet, not to mention stealth.

-HJC