Under Entirely New Management, concluded - Turncoat-17E.jpg (1/1)

There's some saber rattling going these days that just might bring us to
the precipitous edge of oblivion. IIRC, WW I started over an
assassination of a royal figure of lesser stature...

JT




CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:

Do not be so sure of your answer Herr Doktor.

In short form, the Twisted Cross is a symbol of hatred, intolerance,
horror and unlimited cruelty.

Of course the majority of German people are dead set against being
reminded of the Hitler years. As it should be with any nation which has
suffered from a dictatorship. The Holocaust was a terrible event which
continues to horrify me and the world. But, let the next generations
forget or minimize, and the possibility for occurrence becomes more
possible.

Look at the Islamo-Fascists as an example of resurgence in modern times.
The main actors are, in the main, a group of psychopaths who idealize
the Hitler Universe. It does not take much of a stretch to see them
goose-stepping and seig heil-ing just as the Arabs did during World War
Two when they were Axis Allies.

And speaking of Goose-stepping ... have you ever wondered exactly why
the totalitarian armies, the far left or right dictator armies, and the
otherwise nasty thug armies ALL seem to march in parades with the
goose-step? I mean, Hitler didn't invent that style of marching, but it
seems to be de'rigeur amongst the heavy-handed.

Regards,

David ben-Mann
BA (Hons), MA, D.Phil.

Ken Gerlach wrote:
Clearly Dave is neither a Jew or an historian. I lived through that war and
know why display of the Hakenkreuz is still frowned upon by those who
remember.

Dr G K Gerlach


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Hucker wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann
wrote:

Mitchell Holman wrote:

Interesting note for the Germans: The Nazi Hakenkreuz (Swastika) has
been crudely photoshopped out of this picture so that it will be "legal"
to have, display and send/receive in Germany.

I am not belabouring the German people here, just making an observation.

Cheers,

Dave
You can't send/receive a swastika in Germany? That's a little childish.



I seem to recall that it is due to a law which first regulated Nazi-era
souvenirs. But, there was concern by the Germans about the burgeoning
neo-Nazi groups which flourished in the old East Germany after the
Reunification.

An example is eBay.de -- the German eBay system. Nazi-"anything" are not
allowed on that system. There was a lawsuit a few years back, but I
dis-remember the details.

I suppose we could look at it from several views:

1. It is the result of Political Correctness gone mad in a world already
insane.

2. It is a cloying Government technique to stifle free speech -- which is
not guaranteed by the German constitution anyway.

3. It is a reaction to the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist Workers
Movement (Nazi Party) in modern day uniforms but in 1930's style jack
boots.

4. It is a sop to the leftists of Germany whose goal may be to convert
Germany to a Socialist state and want to remove the Hitler times from the
history books.

5. It is due to pressure from the Jewish Rulers of the World -- a Ukase
issued from the secret Fortress of International Jewry located near Mount
Ararat in a cave.

6. It is a legitimate but ill-thought-out attempt by government censors
to limit exposure of modern day Germans to Nazi idealization.

7. Erasing the Swastika from historical images is required by law ..
eventually there will be no-one alive who remembers and it will be "old
history" anyway that nobody studies because they are too busy
demonstrating against something.

As a historian, I think it is unwise to elimiate images which may offend.
Look at the re-creation of history and historical pictures which took
place under the regimes of Stalin and Hitler and the manipulation of
historically important facts such as FDR's paralysis and the fact that he
was wheel-chair-bound ...

Would you believe that it is only in the 1990's that a statue of FDR
showing him in his wheel chair was "allowed" to be made and placed in a
national historical park? Something like that denies the existance of
Polio and more importantly the fortitude of Roosevelt in overcoming his
mobility impairment.

Removing the swastika and make the Seig arm salute illegal in Germany
simply removed one more link to an already distorted view of history.

Travel to any German city today and try to find the local Synagogue.
Naturally there are none, but you will find only a small brass plaque
which has some simplistic words such as "here was the location of the
Jewish Congregation of Beth-Israel which existed from 1525 to 1938 and
which was destroyed by the Nazi government in World War Two." That
statement leaves a whole bunch of history out, to be sure. Somewhere
along the line "Never Again" becomes lost to the casual on-looker, Jew or
non-Jew alike.

I've meandered along here, but the bottom line is that once freedom of
speech and expression becomes constricted or restricted, it is a very
slippery downhill slope.

That slippery slope conundrum is one reason that I, a veteran of 30 years
military service, two wars and with a purple heart to show for it was not
in favor of the flag burning amendment. As obnoxious as I find the
maltreatment of Old Glory, once the law says a person cannon express
themselves by defacing Her, then what will the next step be? How about
"Speaking Out Against the Policies of the Government".

That should give you chills.

Meanwhile,

Cheers,

Dave

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:46:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:

Mitchell Holman wrote:

Interesting note for the Germans: The Nazi Hakenkreuz (Swastika) has
been crudely photoshopped out of this picture so that it will be "legal"
to have, display and send/receive in Germany.

I am not belabouring the German people here, just making an observation.

Cheers,

Dave

You can't send/receive a swastika in Germany? That's a little childish.




I seem to recall that it is due to a law which first regulated Nazi-era
souvenirs. But, there was concern by the Germans about the burgeoning
neo-Nazi groups which flourished in the old East Germany after the
Reunification.

An example is eBay.de -- the German eBay system. Nazi-"anything" are
not allowed on that system. There was a lawsuit a few years back, but I
dis-remember the details.

I suppose we could look at it from several views:

1. It is the result of Political Correctness gone mad in a world
already insane.

2. It is a cloying Government technique to stifle free speech -- which
is not guaranteed by the German constitution anyway.

3. It is a reaction to the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist Workers
Movement (Nazi Party) in modern day uniforms but in 1930's style jack boots.

4. It is a sop to the leftists of Germany whose goal may be to convert
Germany to a Socialist state and want to remove the Hitler times from
the history books.

5. It is due to pressure from the Jewish Rulers of the World -- a Ukase
issued from the secret Fortress of International Jewry located near
Mount Ararat in a cave.

6. It is a legitimate but ill-thought-out attempt by government censors
to limit exposure of modern day Germans to Nazi idealization.

7. Erasing the Swastika from historical images is required by law ..
eventually there will be no-one alive who remembers and it will be "old
history" anyway that nobody studies because they are too busy
demonstrating against something.

As a historian, I think it is unwise to elimiate images which may
offend. Look at the re-creation of history and historical pictures
which took place under the regimes of Stalin and Hitler and the
manipulation of historically important facts such as FDR's paralysis and
the fact that he was wheel-chair-bound ...

Would you believe that it is only in the 1990's that a statue of FDR
showing him in his wheel chair was "allowed" to be made and placed in a
national historical park? Something like that denies the existance of
Polio and more importantly the fortitude of Roosevelt in overcoming his
mobility impairment.

Removing the swastika and make the Seig arm salute illegal in Germany
simply removed one more link to an already distorted view of history.

Travel to any German city today and try to find the local Synagogue.
Naturally there are none, but you will find only a small brass plaque
which has some simplistic words such as "here was the location of the
Jewish Congregation of Beth-Israel which existed from 1525 to 1938 and
which was destroyed by the Nazi government in World War Two." That
statement leaves a whole bunch of history out, to be sure. Somewhere
along the line "Never Again" becomes lost to the casual on-looker, Jew
or non-Jew alike.

I've meandered along here, but the bottom line is that once freedom of
speech and expression becomes constricted or restricted, it is a very
slippery downhill slope.

That slippery slope conundrum is one reason that I, a veteran of 30
years military service, two wars and with a purple heart to show for it
was not in favor of the flag burning amendment. As obnoxious as I find
the maltreatment of Old Glory, once the law says a person cannon express
themselves by defacing Her, then what will the next step be? How about
"Speaking Out Against the Policies of the Government".

That should give you chills.

Meanwhile,

Cheers,

Dave

Agreed on all counts. Well put.


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Thought for the Day:
The Bible teaches us to love your neighbour, and the Kama Sutra explains how.

"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote:

And speaking of Goose-stepping ... have you ever wondered exactly why the
totalitarian armies, the far left or right dictator armies, and the
otherwise nasty thug armies ALL seem to march in parades with the
goose-step? I mean, Hitler didn't invent that style of marching, but it
seems to be de'rigeur amongst the heavy-handed.

The goose-step was considered to be a fine display of discipline,
martial menace and general shock-and-awe intimidation.

Of course it didn't impress everyone:

http://www.archive.org/details/1942-...lph_Takes_Over

--Bill Thompson

I don't believe that I have misread your intent in your original message as
well as the current one. Perhaps the point that the swastika is anathema to
millions of Jewish people is not part of your consideration. In fact, there
is a definite anti-Semitic tone to much of the original. BTW, I am not
Jewish (German/English extract), but as I say, I lived though that horror
and as long as there are still those alive who went thought that war, the
crooked cross will be reviled.

Fondly, the ''Herr Doktor''


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
...
Do not be so sure of your answer Herr Doktor.

In short form, the Twisted Cross is a symbol of hatred, intolerance,
horror and unlimited cruelty.

Of course the majority of German people are dead set against being
reminded of the Hitler years. As it should be with any nation which has
suffered from a dictatorship. The Holocaust was a terrible event which
continues to horrify me and the world. But, let the next generations
forget or minimize, and the possibility for occurrence becomes more
possible.

Look at the Islamo-Fascists as an example of resurgence in modern times.
The main actors are, in the main, a group of psychopaths who idealize the
Hitler Universe. It does not take much of a stretch to see them
goose-stepping and seig heil-ing just as the Arabs did during World War
Two when they were Axis Allies.

And speaking of Goose-stepping ... have you ever wondered exactly why the
totalitarian armies, the far left or right dictator armies, and the
otherwise nasty thug armies ALL seem to march in parades with the
goose-step? I mean, Hitler didn't invent that style of marching, but it
seems to be de'rigeur amongst the heavy-handed.


Regards,

David ben-Mann
BA (Hons), MA, D.Phil.





Ken Gerlach wrote:
Clearly Dave is neither a Jew or an historian. I lived through that war
and know why display of the Hakenkreuz is still frowned upon by those who
remember.

Dr G K Gerlach


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Hucker wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann
wrote:

Mitchell Holman wrote:

Interesting note for the Germans: The Nazi Hakenkreuz (Swastika) has
been crudely photoshopped out of this picture so that it will be
"legal"
to have, display and send/receive in Germany.

I am not belabouring the German people here, just making an
observation.

Cheers,

Dave
You can't send/receive a swastika in Germany? That's a little
childish.



I seem to recall that it is due to a law which first regulated Nazi-era
souvenirs. But, there was concern by the Germans about the burgeoning
neo-Nazi groups which flourished in the old East Germany after the
Reunification.

An example is eBay.de -- the German eBay system. Nazi-"anything" are
not allowed on that system. There was a lawsuit a few years back, but I
dis-remember the details.

I suppose we could look at it from several views:

1. It is the result of Political Correctness gone mad in a world
already insane.

2. It is a cloying Government technique to stifle free speech -- which
is not guaranteed by the German constitution anyway.

3. It is a reaction to the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist Workers
Movement (Nazi Party) in modern day uniforms but in 1930's style jack
boots.

4. It is a sop to the leftists of Germany whose goal may be to convert
Germany to a Socialist state and want to remove the Hitler times from
the history books.

5. It is due to pressure from the Jewish Rulers of the World -- a Ukase
issued from the secret Fortress of International Jewry located near
Mount Ararat in a cave.

6. It is a legitimate but ill-thought-out attempt by government censors
to limit exposure of modern day Germans to Nazi idealization.

7. Erasing the Swastika from historical images is required by law ..
eventually there will be no-one alive who remembers and it will be "old
history" anyway that nobody studies because they are too busy
demonstrating against something.

As a historian, I think it is unwise to elimiate images which may
offend. Look at the re-creation of history and historical pictures which
took place under the regimes of Stalin and Hitler and the manipulation
of historically important facts such as FDR's paralysis and the fact
that he was wheel-chair-bound ...

Would you believe that it is only in the 1990's that a statue of FDR
showing him in his wheel chair was "allowed" to be made and placed in a
national historical park? Something like that denies the existance of
Polio and more importantly the fortitude of Roosevelt in overcoming his
mobility impairment.

Removing the swastika and make the Seig arm salute illegal in Germany
simply removed one more link to an already distorted view of history.

Travel to any German city today and try to find the local Synagogue.
Naturally there are none, but you will find only a small brass plaque
which has some simplistic words such as "here was the location of the
Jewish Congregation of Beth-Israel which existed from 1525 to 1938 and
which was destroyed by the Nazi government in World War Two." That
statement leaves a whole bunch of history out, to be sure. Somewhere
along the line "Never Again" becomes lost to the casual on-looker, Jew
or non-Jew alike.

I've meandered along here, but the bottom line is that once freedom of
speech and expression becomes constricted or restricted, it is a very
slippery downhill slope.

That slippery slope conundrum is one reason that I, a veteran of 30
years military service, two wars and with a purple heart to show for it
was not in favor of the flag burning amendment. As obnoxious as I find
the maltreatment of Old Glory, once the law says a person cannon express
themselves by defacing Her, then what will the next step be? How about
"Speaking Out Against the Policies of the Government".

That should give you chills.

Meanwhile,

Cheers,

Dave

No other minority takes things so seriously.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:38:55 -0000, Ken Gerlach wrote:

I don't believe that I have misread your intent in your original message as
well as the current one. Perhaps the point that the swastika is anathema to
millions of Jewish people is not part of your consideration. In fact, there
is a definite anti-Semitic tone to much of the original. BTW, I am not
Jewish (German/English extract), but as I say, I lived though that horror
and as long as there are still those alive who went thought that war, the
crooked cross will be reviled.

Fondly, the ''Herr Doktor''


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
...
Do not be so sure of your answer Herr Doktor.

In short form, the Twisted Cross is a symbol of hatred, intolerance,
horror and unlimited cruelty.

Of course the majority of German people are dead set against being
reminded of the Hitler years. As it should be with any nation which has
suffered from a dictatorship. The Holocaust was a terrible event which
continues to horrify me and the world. But, let the next generations
forget or minimize, and the possibility for occurrence becomes more
possible.

Look at the Islamo-Fascists as an example of resurgence in modern times.
The main actors are, in the main, a group of psychopaths who idealize the
Hitler Universe. It does not take much of a stretch to see them
goose-stepping and seig heil-ing just as the Arabs did during World War
Two when they were Axis Allies.

And speaking of Goose-stepping ... have you ever wondered exactly why the
totalitarian armies, the far left or right dictator armies, and the
otherwise nasty thug armies ALL seem to march in parades with the
goose-step? I mean, Hitler didn't invent that style of marching, but it
seems to be de'rigeur amongst the heavy-handed.


Regards,

David ben-Mann
BA (Hons), MA, D.Phil.





Ken Gerlach wrote:
Clearly Dave is neither a Jew or an historian. I lived through that war
and know why display of the Hakenkreuz is still frowned upon by those who
remember.

Dr G K Gerlach


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Hucker wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann
wrote:

You can't send/receive a swastika in Germany? That's a little
childish.



I seem to recall that it is due to a law which first regulated Nazi-era
souvenirs. But, there was concern by the Germans about the burgeoning
neo-Nazi groups which flourished in the old East Germany after the
Reunification.

An example is eBay.de -- the German eBay system. Nazi-"anything" are
not allowed on that system. There was a lawsuit a few years back, but I
dis-remember the details.

I suppose we could look at it from several views:

1. It is the result of Political Correctness gone mad in a world
already insane.

2. It is a cloying Government technique to stifle free speech -- which
is not guaranteed by the German constitution anyway.

3. It is a reaction to the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist Workers
Movement (Nazi Party) in modern day uniforms but in 1930's style jack
boots.

4. It is a sop to the leftists of Germany whose goal may be to convert
Germany to a Socialist state and want to remove the Hitler times from
the history books.

5. It is due to pressure from the Jewish Rulers of the World -- a Ukase
issued from the secret Fortress of International Jewry located near
Mount Ararat in a cave.

6. It is a legitimate but ill-thought-out attempt by government censors
to limit exposure of modern day Germans to Nazi idealization.

7. Erasing the Swastika from historical images is required by law ..
eventually there will be no-one alive who remembers and it will be "old
history" anyway that nobody studies because they are too busy
demonstrating against something.

As a historian, I think it is unwise to elimiate images which may
offend. Look at the re-creation of history and historical pictures which
took place under the regimes of Stalin and Hitler and the manipulation
of historically important facts such as FDR's paralysis and the fact
that he was wheel-chair-bound ...

Would you believe that it is only in the 1990's that a statue of FDR
showing him in his wheel chair was "allowed" to be made and placed in a
national historical park? Something like that denies the existance of
Polio and more importantly the fortitude of Roosevelt in overcoming his
mobility impairment.

Removing the swastika and make the Seig arm salute illegal in Germany
simply removed one more link to an already distorted view of history.

Travel to any German city today and try to find the local Synagogue.
Naturally there are none, but you will find only a small brass plaque
which has some simplistic words such as "here was the location of the
Jewish Congregation of Beth-Israel which existed from 1525 to 1938 and
which was destroyed by the Nazi government in World War Two." That
statement leaves a whole bunch of history out, to be sure. Somewhere
along the line "Never Again" becomes lost to the casual on-looker, Jew
or non-Jew alike.

I've meandered along here, but the bottom line is that once freedom of
speech and expression becomes constricted or restricted, it is a very
slippery downhill slope.

That slippery slope conundrum is one reason that I, a veteran of 30
years military service, two wars and with a purple heart to show for it
was not in favor of the flag burning amendment. As obnoxious as I find
the maltreatment of Old Glory, once the law says a person cannon express
themselves by defacing Her, then what will the next step be? How about
"Speaking Out Against the Policies of the Government".

That should give you chills.

Meanwhile,

Cheers,

Dave







--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Why is bra singular and panties plural?

You're missing the point. Displaying it as a historical item is not showing hatred for anyone. It's not liking someone's shaking it in your face. The war was a long time ago, give it a rest.


On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:59:26 -0000, Ken Gerlach wrote:

Clearly Dave is neither a Jew or an historian. I lived through that war and
know why display of the Hakenkreuz is still frowned upon by those who
remember.

Dr G K Gerlach


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Hucker wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann
wrote:

Mitchell Holman wrote:

Interesting note for the Germans: The Nazi Hakenkreuz (Swastika) has
been crudely photoshopped out of this picture so that it will be "legal"
to have, display and send/receive in Germany.

I am not belabouring the German people here, just making an observation.

Cheers,

Dave

You can't send/receive a swastika in Germany? That's a little childish.




I seem to recall that it is due to a law which first regulated Nazi-era
souvenirs. But, there was concern by the Germans about the burgeoning
neo-Nazi groups which flourished in the old East Germany after the
Reunification.

An example is eBay.de -- the German eBay system. Nazi-"anything" are not
allowed on that system. There was a lawsuit a few years back, but I
dis-remember the details.

I suppose we could look at it from several views:

1. It is the result of Political Correctness gone mad in a world already
insane.

2. It is a cloying Government technique to stifle free speech -- which is
not guaranteed by the German constitution anyway.

3. It is a reaction to the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist Workers
Movement (Nazi Party) in modern day uniforms but in 1930's style jack
boots.

4. It is a sop to the leftists of Germany whose goal may be to convert
Germany to a Socialist state and want to remove the Hitler times from the
history books.

5. It is due to pressure from the Jewish Rulers of the World -- a Ukase
issued from the secret Fortress of International Jewry located near Mount
Ararat in a cave.

6. It is a legitimate but ill-thought-out attempt by government censors
to limit exposure of modern day Germans to Nazi idealization.

7. Erasing the Swastika from historical images is required by law ..
eventually there will be no-one alive who remembers and it will be "old
history" anyway that nobody studies because they are too busy
demonstrating against something.

As a historian, I think it is unwise to elimiate images which may offend.
Look at the re-creation of history and historical pictures which took
place under the regimes of Stalin and Hitler and the manipulation of
historically important facts such as FDR's paralysis and the fact that he
was wheel-chair-bound ...

Would you believe that it is only in the 1990's that a statue of FDR
showing him in his wheel chair was "allowed" to be made and placed in a
national historical park? Something like that denies the existance of
Polio and more importantly the fortitude of Roosevelt in overcoming his
mobility impairment.

Removing the swastika and make the Seig arm salute illegal in Germany
simply removed one more link to an already distorted view of history.

Travel to any German city today and try to find the local Synagogue.
Naturally there are none, but you will find only a small brass plaque
which has some simplistic words such as "here was the location of the
Jewish Congregation of Beth-Israel which existed from 1525 to 1938 and
which was destroyed by the Nazi government in World War Two." That
statement leaves a whole bunch of history out, to be sure. Somewhere
along the line "Never Again" becomes lost to the casual on-looker, Jew or
non-Jew alike.

I've meandered along here, but the bottom line is that once freedom of
speech and expression becomes constricted or restricted, it is a very
slippery downhill slope.

That slippery slope conundrum is one reason that I, a veteran of 30 years
military service, two wars and with a purple heart to show for it was not
in favor of the flag burning amendment. As obnoxious as I find the
maltreatment of Old Glory, once the law says a person cannon express
themselves by defacing Her, then what will the next step be? How about
"Speaking Out Against the Policies of the Government".

That should give you chills.

Meanwhile,

Cheers,

Dave







--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Reading while sunbathing makes you well red.

Indeeed, no other minority has suffered the murder of millions of its
members! gkg

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
news
No other minority takes things so seriously.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:38:55 -0000, Ken Gerlach wrote:

I don't believe that I have misread your intent in your original message
as
well as the current one. Perhaps the point that the swastika is anathema
to
millions of Jewish people is not part of your consideration. In fact,
there
is a definite anti-Semitic tone to much of the original. BTW, I am not
Jewish (German/English extract), but as I say, I lived though that horror
and as long as there are still those alive who went thought that war,
the
crooked cross will be reviled.

Fondly, the ''Herr Doktor''


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
...
Do not be so sure of your answer Herr Doktor.

In short form, the Twisted Cross is a symbol of hatred, intolerance,
horror and unlimited cruelty.

Of course the majority of German people are dead set against being
reminded of the Hitler years. As it should be with any nation which has
suffered from a dictatorship. The Holocaust was a terrible event which
continues to horrify me and the world. But, let the next generations
forget or minimize, and the possibility for occurrence becomes more
possible.

Look at the Islamo-Fascists as an example of resurgence in modern times.
The main actors are, in the main, a group of psychopaths who idealize
the
Hitler Universe. It does not take much of a stretch to see them
goose-stepping and seig heil-ing just as the Arabs did during World War
Two when they were Axis Allies.

And speaking of Goose-stepping ... have you ever wondered exactly why
the
totalitarian armies, the far left or right dictator armies, and the
otherwise nasty thug armies ALL seem to march in parades with the
goose-step? I mean, Hitler didn't invent that style of marching, but it
seems to be de'rigeur amongst the heavy-handed.


Regards,

David ben-Mann
BA (Hons), MA, D.Phil.





Ken Gerlach wrote:
Clearly Dave is neither a Jew or an historian. I lived through that
war
and know why display of the Hakenkreuz is still frowned upon by those
who
remember.

Dr G K Gerlach


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Hucker wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann
wrote:

You can't send/receive a swastika in Germany? That's a little
childish.



I seem to recall that it is due to a law which first regulated
Nazi-era
souvenirs. But, there was concern by the Germans about the burgeoning
neo-Nazi groups which flourished in the old East Germany after the
Reunification.

An example is eBay.de -- the German eBay system. Nazi-"anything" are
not allowed on that system. There was a lawsuit a few years back, but
I
dis-remember the details.

I suppose we could look at it from several views:

1. It is the result of Political Correctness gone mad in a world
already insane.

2. It is a cloying Government technique to stifle free speech --
which
is not guaranteed by the German constitution anyway.

3. It is a reaction to the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist
Workers
Movement (Nazi Party) in modern day uniforms but in 1930's style jack
boots.

4. It is a sop to the leftists of Germany whose goal may be to
convert
Germany to a Socialist state and want to remove the Hitler times from
the history books.

5. It is due to pressure from the Jewish Rulers of the World -- a
Ukase
issued from the secret Fortress of International Jewry located near
Mount Ararat in a cave.

6. It is a legitimate but ill-thought-out attempt by government
censors
to limit exposure of modern day Germans to Nazi idealization.

7. Erasing the Swastika from historical images is required by law ..
eventually there will be no-one alive who remembers and it will be
"old
history" anyway that nobody studies because they are too busy
demonstrating against something.

As a historian, I think it is unwise to elimiate images which may
offend. Look at the re-creation of history and historical pictures
which
took place under the regimes of Stalin and Hitler and the manipulation
of historically important facts such as FDR's paralysis and the fact
that he was wheel-chair-bound ...

Would you believe that it is only in the 1990's that a statue of FDR
showing him in his wheel chair was "allowed" to be made and placed in
a
national historical park? Something like that denies the existance of
Polio and more importantly the fortitude of Roosevelt in overcoming
his
mobility impairment.

Removing the swastika and make the Seig arm salute illegal in Germany
simply removed one more link to an already distorted view of history.

Travel to any German city today and try to find the local Synagogue.
Naturally there are none, but you will find only a small brass plaque
which has some simplistic words such as "here was the location of the
Jewish Congregation of Beth-Israel which existed from 1525 to 1938 and
which was destroyed by the Nazi government in World War Two." That
statement leaves a whole bunch of history out, to be sure. Somewhere
along the line "Never Again" becomes lost to the casual on-looker, Jew
or non-Jew alike.

I've meandered along here, but the bottom line is that once freedom of
speech and expression becomes constricted or restricted, it is a very
slippery downhill slope.

That slippery slope conundrum is one reason that I, a veteran of 30
years military service, two wars and with a purple heart to show for
it
was not in favor of the flag burning amendment. As obnoxious as I
find
the maltreatment of Old Glory, once the law says a person cannon
express
themselves by defacing Her, then what will the next step be? How
about
"Speaking Out Against the Policies of the Government".

That should give you chills.

Meanwhile,

Cheers,

Dave







--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Why is bra singular and panties plural?

"Peter Hucker" wrote in
news
No other minority takes things so seriously.

Genocide will do that...

On the same scale, yes.

But, there's plenty of examples of the same murderous activity taking
place daily in Africa and many closed countries in this world.

Fact is that it will never go away. It is just one of the more gritty
ingredients of humanity...

JT




Ken Gerlach wrote:

Indeeed, no other minority has suffered the murder of millions of its
members! gkg

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
news
No other minority takes things so seriously.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:38:55 -0000, Ken Gerlach wrote:

I don't believe that I have misread your intent in your original message
as
well as the current one. Perhaps the point that the swastika is anathema
to
millions of Jewish people is not part of your consideration. In fact,
there
is a definite anti-Semitic tone to much of the original. BTW, I am not
Jewish (German/English extract), but as I say, I lived though that horror
and as long as there are still those alive who went thought that war,
the
crooked cross will be reviled.

Fondly, the ''Herr Doktor''


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
...
Do not be so sure of your answer Herr Doktor.

In short form, the Twisted Cross is a symbol of hatred, intolerance,
horror and unlimited cruelty.

Of course the majority of German people are dead set against being
reminded of the Hitler years. As it should be with any nation which has
suffered from a dictatorship. The Holocaust was a terrible event which
continues to horrify me and the world. But, let the next generations
forget or minimize, and the possibility for occurrence becomes more
possible.

Look at the Islamo-Fascists as an example of resurgence in modern times.
The main actors are, in the main, a group of psychopaths who idealize
the
Hitler Universe. It does not take much of a stretch to see them
goose-stepping and seig heil-ing just as the Arabs did during World War
Two when they were Axis Allies.

And speaking of Goose-stepping ... have you ever wondered exactly why
the
totalitarian armies, the far left or right dictator armies, and the
otherwise nasty thug armies ALL seem to march in parades with the
goose-step? I mean, Hitler didn't invent that style of marching, but it
seems to be de'rigeur amongst the heavy-handed.


Regards,

David ben-Mann
BA (Hons), MA, D.Phil.





Ken Gerlach wrote:
Clearly Dave is neither a Jew or an historian. I lived through that
war
and know why display of the Hakenkreuz is still frowned upon by those
who
remember.

Dr G K Gerlach


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Hucker wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann
wrote:

You can't send/receive a swastika in Germany? That's a little
childish.



I seem to recall that it is due to a law which first regulated
Nazi-era
souvenirs. But, there was concern by the Germans about the burgeoning
neo-Nazi groups which flourished in the old East Germany after the
Reunification.

An example is eBay.de -- the German eBay system. Nazi-"anything" are
not allowed on that system. There was a lawsuit a few years back, but
I
dis-remember the details.

I suppose we could look at it from several views:

1. It is the result of Political Correctness gone mad in a world
already insane.

2. It is a cloying Government technique to stifle free speech --
which
is not guaranteed by the German constitution anyway.

3. It is a reaction to the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist
Workers
Movement (Nazi Party) in modern day uniforms but in 1930's style jack
boots.

4. It is a sop to the leftists of Germany whose goal may be to
convert
Germany to a Socialist state and want to remove the Hitler times from
the history books.

5. It is due to pressure from the Jewish Rulers of the World -- a
Ukase
issued from the secret Fortress of International Jewry located near
Mount Ararat in a cave.

6. It is a legitimate but ill-thought-out attempt by government
censors
to limit exposure of modern day Germans to Nazi idealization.

7. Erasing the Swastika from historical images is required by law ..
eventually there will be no-one alive who remembers and it will be
"old
history" anyway that nobody studies because they are too busy
demonstrating against something.

As a historian, I think it is unwise to elimiate images which may
offend. Look at the re-creation of history and historical pictures
which
took place under the regimes of Stalin and Hitler and the manipulation
of historically important facts such as FDR's paralysis and the fact
that he was wheel-chair-bound ...

Would you believe that it is only in the 1990's that a statue of FDR
showing him in his wheel chair was "allowed" to be made and placed in
a
national historical park? Something like that denies the existance of
Polio and more importantly the fortitude of Roosevelt in overcoming
his
mobility impairment.

Removing the swastika and make the Seig arm salute illegal in Germany
simply removed one more link to an already distorted view of history.

Travel to any German city today and try to find the local Synagogue.
Naturally there are none, but you will find only a small brass plaque
which has some simplistic words such as "here was the location of the
Jewish Congregation of Beth-Israel which existed from 1525 to 1938 and
which was destroyed by the Nazi government in World War Two." That
statement leaves a whole bunch of history out, to be sure. Somewhere
along the line "Never Again" becomes lost to the casual on-looker, Jew
or non-Jew alike.

I've meandered along here, but the bottom line is that once freedom of
speech and expression becomes constricted or restricted, it is a very
slippery downhill slope.

That slippery slope conundrum is one reason that I, a veteran of 30
years military service, two wars and with a purple heart to show for
it
was not in favor of the flag burning amendment. As obnoxious as I
find
the maltreatment of Old Glory, once the law says a person cannon
express
themselves by defacing Her, then what will the next step be? How
about
"Speaking Out Against the Policies of the Government".

That should give you chills.

Meanwhile,

Cheers,

Dave







--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Why is bra singular and panties plural?

This is still happening is it?

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 06:39:32 -0000, Ken Gerlach wrote:

Indeeed, no other minority has suffered the murder of millions of its
members! gkg

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
news
No other minority takes things so seriously.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:38:55 -0000, Ken Gerlach wrote:

I don't believe that I have misread your intent in your original message
as
well as the current one. Perhaps the point that the swastika is anathema
to
millions of Jewish people is not part of your consideration. In fact,
there
is a definite anti-Semitic tone to much of the original. BTW, I am not
Jewish (German/English extract), but as I say, I lived though that horror
and as long as there are still those alive who went thought that war,
the
crooked cross will be reviled.

Fondly, the ''Herr Doktor''


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
...
Do not be so sure of your answer Herr Doktor.

In short form, the Twisted Cross is a symbol of hatred, intolerance,
horror and unlimited cruelty.

Of course the majority of German people are dead set against being
reminded of the Hitler years. As it should be with any nation which has
suffered from a dictatorship. The Holocaust was a terrible event which
continues to horrify me and the world. But, let the next generations
forget or minimize, and the possibility for occurrence becomes more
possible.

Look at the Islamo-Fascists as an example of resurgence in modern times.
The main actors are, in the main, a group of psychopaths who idealize
the
Hitler Universe. It does not take much of a stretch to see them
goose-stepping and seig heil-ing just as the Arabs did during World War
Two when they were Axis Allies.

And speaking of Goose-stepping ... have you ever wondered exactly why
the
totalitarian armies, the far left or right dictator armies, and the
otherwise nasty thug armies ALL seem to march in parades with the
goose-step? I mean, Hitler didn't invent that style of marching, but it
seems to be de'rigeur amongst the heavy-handed.


Regards,

David ben-Mann
BA (Hons), MA, D.Phil.





Ken Gerlach wrote:
Clearly Dave is neither a Jew or an historian. I lived through that
war
and know why display of the Hakenkreuz is still frowned upon by those
who
remember.

Dr G K Gerlach


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. ..






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Why is bra singular and panties plural?






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

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