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China to acquire Backfires?



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 23rd 04, 03:47 AM
Pooh Bear
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Michael Wise wrote:

In article ,
Pooh Bear wrote:

The Cold War is over - or did someone forget to mention it to you ?


Somebody needs to tell that to the USN VQ-1 EP-3 crew who were held
prisoner by the Chinese military several days before being allowed to
even speak with the outside world.


Compare that to Gary Powers' treatment if you want to make a Cold War comparison.

If the USA chooses to spy on the PRC, I'm unsurprised that the PRC wishes to try
and deter such action. I would be interested to see the reaction of the USA to
Chinese spy planes off its shores !


Graham

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  #22  
Old August 23rd 04, 04:57 AM
Steve Hix
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In article ,
Pooh Bear wrote:

If the USA chooses to spy on the PRC, I'm unsurprised that the PRC wishes to
try and deter such action.


Ramming aircraft in international airspace seems, well, clumsy of them.

I would be interested to see the reaction of the USA
to Chinese spy planes off its shores !


They use "fishing" boats, instead.
  #23  
Old August 23rd 04, 05:06 AM
Michael Wise
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In article ,
Pooh Bear wrote:

The Cold War is over - or did someone forget to mention it to you ?


Somebody needs to tell that to the USN VQ-1 EP-3 crew who were held
prisoner by the Chinese military several days before being allowed to
even speak with the outside world.


Compare that to Gary Powers' treatment if you want to make a Cold War
comparison.

If the USA chooses to spy on the PRC, I'm unsurprised that the PRC wishes to
try
and deter such action. I would be interested to see the reaction of the USA
to
Chinese spy planes off its shores !


The number of Chinese apologists spouting this BS sickening.

Chinese ELINT aircraft have plaid spook on the Koreans and Japanese for
years. They are intercepted by those countries' assets as well as those
of our USAF and USN.

Would Japan be justified to recklessly intercept their PRC spy planes in
international airspace and then take the crew prisoner when they are
forced to land as a consequence of an incompetently flown intercept?



--Mike
  #24  
Old August 23rd 04, 05:15 AM
Pooh Bear
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Steve Hix wrote:

In article ,
Pooh Bear wrote:

If the USA chooses to spy on the PRC, I'm unsurprised that the PRC wishes to
try and deter such action.


Ramming aircraft in international airspace seems, well, clumsy of them.


From what I heard it wasn't actually 'ramming'. Foolish airborne jousting perhaps
?


I would be interested to see the reaction of the USA
to Chinese spy planes off its shores !


They use "fishing" boats, instead.


In international waters no doubt ?

Somewhat less effective though.

Don't ever forget that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander too.


Graham


  #25  
Old August 23rd 04, 02:40 PM
Jim Yanik
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Pooh Bear wrote in
:

Jim Yanik wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote in
:

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ina/tu-22m.htm

Two part question; first, do you think that China will actually
succeed in it's acquisition attempts regarding the Backfire, and
if so, how many would they end up with?

Irrelevant


Second, what does this mean to the the US?

Bugger all !

China needs the USA ( and the rest of the western world ) to trade
with. That's how they are modernising their country via a
significant trade surplus. Otherwise it's back to the paddy fields.

The Chinese have essentially become capitalists today. Just like
the Russians too. They just don't like to admit it much.

The Cold War is over - or did someone forget to mention it to you ?


Graham - who has actually visited the PRC on business.


p.s where do you think most consumer goods are manufactured these
days ?


you seem to not believe that the mainland Chinese are going to attack
Taiwan sooner or later to being them back under Communist control,and
that the US would not use it's carrier groups to oppose that move.


There's too much to lose in an actual 'shooting war'.


At some point in China's modernization,they may decide they can go it alone
or just trade with counties such as France and Germany.

Posturing is another matter.


Who wants to gamble on it being 'posturing'?
They've STATED they intend to retake Taiwan,and their actions in
modernizing their military support this.


Hong Kong hasn't become or been forced to be 'Communist' btw since
becoming a special administrative region.


HK is slowly being converted.(the 'boil the frog' concept)
You need to keep up with the news.




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net
  #26  
Old August 23rd 04, 02:43 PM
Jim Yanik
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"Keith Willshaw" wrote in
:


"Peter Kemp" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:00:50 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ina/tu-22m.htm

Two part question; first, do you think that China will actually
succeed

in
it's acquisition attempts regarding the Backfire, and if so, how
many

would
they end up with?

Irrelevant


Second, what does this mean to the the US?

Bugger all !

China needs the USA ( and the rest of the western world ) to trade
with.

That's
how they are modernising their country via a significant trade
surplus. Otherwise it's back to the paddy fields.


Trade isn't the be all and end all of avoiding war. France was
Germany's biggest trading partner in 1939.


And from June 1940 onwards, the difference is that the West is
unlikely to resume trade with China while a
war is going on.

Keith




These days,with the French and Germans having illegally traded with Iraq,I
would not be so certain that some 'Western' nations would not continue
their trade with red China even if war broke out against Taiwan with the US
supporting Taiwan.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net
  #27  
Old August 23rd 04, 03:41 PM
Keith Willshaw
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"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in
:



These days,with the French and Germans having illegally traded with Iraq,I
would not be so certain that some 'Western' nations would not continue
their trade with red China even if war broke out against Taiwan with the

US
supporting Taiwan.


There's damm little evidence for either of those nations
trading on any significant scale with Iraq and they are
unlikely to rush to buy the plastic gewgaws China makes
for Walmart etc.

Keith




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  #28  
Old August 23rd 04, 06:09 PM
Matt Wiser
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Actually, PRC assets do not monitor the U.S. Pacific Command in the number
or manner Ivan did. Very few (if any) air shadowing of CVBGs, let alone sub
or AGI activity off of U.S. bases in Okinawa, Guam or Hawaii. They do concentrate
on Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Koreas, Japan, Russia and their own dissidents,
though.


Pooh Bear wrote:
Steve Hix wrote:

In article ,
Pooh Bear

wrote:

If the USA chooses to spy on the PRC, I'm

unsurprised that the PRC wishes to
try and deter such action.


Ramming aircraft in international airspace

seems, well, clumsy of them.

From what I heard it wasn't actually 'ramming'.
Foolish airborne jousting perhaps
?


I would be interested to see the reaction

of the USA
to Chinese spy planes off its shores !


They use "fishing" boats, instead.


In international waters no doubt ?

Somewhat less effective though.

Don't ever forget that what's sauce for the
goose is sauce for the gander too.


Graham




Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!
  #29  
Old August 24th 04, 01:15 AM
phil hunt
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:10:27 GMT, Michael Wise wrote:
The Chinese have essentially become capitalists today. Just like the Russians
too. They just don't like to admit it much.


Thieving capitalists who invent nothing and simply copy/counterfeit what
the rest of the world creates.


Didn't people use to say that about Japan?

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk)


  #30  
Old August 24th 04, 02:09 AM
Pooh Bear
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Jim Yanik wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote in
:

There's too much to lose in an actual 'shooting war'.


At some point in China's modernization,they may decide they can go it alone
or just trade with counties such as France and Germany.


With regard to that specific point, don't forget that France and Germany are in
the EU. Selective trade with certain EU members only would attract the
attention of the European Comission which would embargo such a stance (
assuming that France and Germany for example were even dumb enought to go along
with such a situation in the first place ). Also there is free trade in the EU.

It makes as much sense as suggesting that you could trade with Texas and
California but not the rest of the USA.

Graham

 




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