(USA) 2010 Program Letters (have FAA requirements changed?)

On Feb 4, 4:15*pm, Tuno wrote:
I just got off the phone with my FSDO.

I made the mistake of stating on my program letter that, in addition
to the specific contest-oriented dates, places & locations already on
the letter, I would also conduct flights "for my own enjoyment".

He pointed out to me that flights "for my own enjoyment" are not
authorized by my aircraft limitations. Only actual racing, and
proficiency flights in preparation thereof, are permitted.

Well, I sit corrected! No more fun flights in my glider. Serious ****
only!

(Mr M, if you troll this web page, please understand I don't blame
this on you -- I know you're just following the rules. But the
situation is, well, laughable. My letter will be revised and
resubmitted with unseen winks and nudges.)

ted/2NO

Ted,
"Enjoyment" is totally unauthorized! You should have known better. In
fact, you are not even allowed to smile during your "racing" and
"proficiency" flights. Now, go forth and fly, get ready for the
contest season, but remember.....DO NOT enjoy it! ;-)
Renny

On Feb 4, 6:15*pm, Tuno wrote:
I just got off the phone with my FSDO.
[...]

Well, I sit corrected! No more fun flights in my glider. Serious ****
only!

Some truths, we hold to be self-evident :-).

-T8

Speaking of Faxing - what's with that? Can't the FAA handle an email
attachement of a Word doc or a PDF file?

Sheesh....

Kirk

A inquiry to your friendly FSDO might be in order. Electronic is
easier for both parties.

The Houston (TX) FDSO accepted my program letter (and other's)
electronically this year. Understandably, they want a signature, so a
plain Word file is generally not going to cut it. I printed the
letter, signed it, scanned it to a pdf, and submitted.

Based on a recommendation I saw some months ago (in Soaring mag or
ras, I don't recall) to ask for receipt confirmation, I asked for a
return email stating they received it, which they did. I realize
that's not legally definative, but it's an easy step to at least
confirm they read it and felt it was acceptable.

While the whole program letter idea for sailplanes does seem a bit
pointless, I did feel that our local FDSO was trying to make the best
of the existing requirements and very willing to work with pilots.

- Frank

On Feb 4, 4:15*pm, Tuno wrote:
I just got off the phone with my FSDO.

I made the mistake of stating on my program letter that, in addition
to the specific contest-oriented dates, places & locations already on
the letter, I would also conduct flights "for my own enjoyment".

He pointed out to me that flights "for my own enjoyment" are not
authorized by my aircraft limitations. Only actual racing, and
proficiency flights in preparation thereof, are permitted.

Well, I sit corrected! No more fun flights in my glider. Serious ****
only!

(Mr M, if you troll this web page, please understand I don't blame
this on you -- I know you're just following the rules. But the
situation is, well, laughable. My letter will be revised and
resubmitted with unseen winks and nudges.)

ted/2NO

That is quite correct.

More specifically from FAA Order 8130.2

(31) All proficiency/practice flights must be conducted within the
geographical area described
in the applicant’s program letter and any amendments to that letter,
but no portion of that area will be
more than 300 nautical miles from the aircraft’s home base airport. An
exception is permitted for
proficiency flying outside of the area stated above for organized
formation flying, training, or pilot
checkout in conjunction with a specific event listed in the
applicant’s program letter (or amendments).
The program letter should indicate the location and dates for this
proficiency flying.
(Applicability: Group I; group III under 800 horsepower)

(35) Proficiency flights are authorized without geographical
restrictions when conducted in
preparation for participation in sanctioned meets and pursuant to
qualify for Federal Aeronautique
International (FAI) or Soaring Society of America (SSA) awards. These
flights may only take place as
defined in the applicant’s program letter, and prior to the specific
FAI or SSA event. The pilot in
command must submit a description of the intended route and/or
geographical area intended to be flown
to the local FSDO.
(Applicability: Group I, gliders only)

On Feb 5, 12:06*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:

(35) Proficiency flights are authorized without geographical
restrictions when conducted in
preparation for participation in sanctioned meets and pursuant to
qualify for Federal Aeronautique
International (FAI) or Soaring Society of America (SSA) awards. These
flights may only take place as
defined in the applicant’s program letter, and prior to the specific
FAI or SSA event. The pilot in
command must submit a description of the intended route and/or
geographical area intended to be flown
to the local FSDO.
(Applicability: Group I, gliders only)

What does "local FSDO" mean in this context? It could be either local
to the glider home base, or it could mean local to the planned area of
the flight.

The rule is rather strange in either event. It seems to say you can
fly anywhere without geographic restriction as long as you tell them
before hand exactly where you are going to fly. (Joseph Heller would
have enjoyed this one).


Andy

On Feb 5, 7:13*am, Andy wrote:
On Feb 5, 12:06*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:

(35) Proficiency flights are authorized without geographical
restrictions when conducted in
preparation for participation in sanctioned meets and pursuant to
qualify for Federal Aeronautique
International (FAI) or Soaring Society of America (SSA) awards. These
flights may only take place as
defined in the applicant’s program letter, and prior to the specific
FAI or SSA event. The pilot in
command must submit a description of the intended route and/or
geographical area intended to be flown
to the local FSDO.
(Applicability: Group I, gliders only)

What does "local FSDO" mean in this context? *It could be either local
to the glider home base, or it could mean local to the planned area of
the flight.

The rule is rather strange in either event. *It seems to say you can
fly anywhere without geographic restriction as long as you tell them
before hand exactly where you are going to fly. (Joseph Heller would
have enjoyed this one).

Andy

Good question, though amendments to the program letter go to the base
FSDO (which is why their FAX number is on my pdf example).

Frank

kirk.stant wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:30 pm, zulu wrote:
Ted et al

Your FSDO dude is a bit behind the times as the most current FAA order
is 8130.2F Change 5 dated 01/15/2010. Check out para. 161 in order to
get started.
I've been told by our local FSDO that older gliders can no longer use
their old "one time" program letter and that the operations
limitations need to reflect the airport from which the glider is flown
and that a yearly program letter must be submitted.
HOWEVER, the local feds have not as yet quoted me book, chaper and
verse of the reg/order that supports their statement. I'm still
working on that but I suspect it can be found in the above mentioned
order.

Zulu

Yeah, I can see that coming!

Maybe time to put bogus N numbers on the glider - different on each
side?

But more seriously, has anyone out there been checked by the FAA to
see if they are complying with their program letter? I can just see a
ramp check at a big Sports Class contest!

And what is the penalty? "You can't fly it here." "OK, where's the
Fax machine?".

Speaking of Faxing - what's with that? Can't the FAA handle an email
attachement of a Word doc or a PDF file?

Sheesh....

Kirk
Regrettably we may as well get used to this.

We have had a full ramp check for the entire grid at a regional contest-
29 aircraft -(2009 Gauteng regionals - that is in South Africa for the
rest of the world)

All documentation - glider and pilot, weight and balance etc.
Contest check - Briefing, tasking, airspace ad turnpoint files, safety
documentation and policies the whole nine yards. Kept the contest
directors busy the whole day.

Fortunately no major problems - except the time consumed.

Bruce

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