Defence plan to scrap F-111s

"Graham" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
...
You're overlooking a couple of really important points.........

"Defender in Tas" wrote in message
m...
The problem with our having the F-111 is we now have people arguing
that we shouldn't lose such a great capability. It's a double-edged
sword. The F-111 has served us well, but can we really justify its
cost in this day and age? The Army has been run down, and the $300
million we spend on the Pigs would fund the raising of two extra
infantry battalions.

Except Infantry Battalions are kind of manpower-intensive. The ADF is
having a hard enough time filling existing vacancies without creating
1200-1800 more overnight.

Actually Infantry is over sucribed, the school of cool is not that full
these days cause there is only limited postions in the Battalions. How
often
r the Battalions being deployed? all the bloody time, how often r the
F111s
being deployed?

Obviously the finer points of Strategy are lost on you. Infantry battalions
(especially those a "light" as ours) don't make much of a strategic
deterrent. And F111s aren't suited to peace-keeping.


--
De Oppresso Liber.

The Raven wrote:

"Graham" wrote in message
...
Yeah hi, can anyone tell me when the F111s were last deployed in combat?

The Australian F-111's or just general F-111's?

have they ever? just asking.

I believe some were used in VN but not sure if that included Australia. I
would have thought Australia received them too late for VN.

We got ours in '78.

USAF F-111's were first used in Vietnam, where 3 or 4 of the original
6 crashed, with only the 4'th's crew being saved. They were withdrawn,
and General Dynamics found the fault lied with the pivot box. Went
back to Vietnam where they participated in Operation Linebacker
with great success.

The were used as recently as GW One in combat.

Also used from air base in England to bomb Gadaffi in Libya in '85.
(going the long way around too. Someone wouldnt give overfly
rights.. cant remember who tho...)

Regards

Lindsay

Peter wrote:

They are getting on a bit, but they remain enormously capable aircraft, and
it is difficult to see how we could replace them with anything possessing
the same range and payload.

Agreed.

I asked an F-111 pilot at Avalon what he would like to replace his
F-111 with.. His reply?

"Another F-111".

"Alan" wrote in message
. au...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...


and
"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...


Poor gate guard, it must suck knowing you are second rate.

What I really find amusing, is that I could happily smack ten shades of
****
out of you and you think I'm a gate guard. How embarrassing it must be
for
you to know a mere "gate guard" could flog you to a bloody pulp.

--

What we (bit presumptuous, I know) don't find amusing is Brash and acrobat
continuing on with this crap.
Alan

Take it up with him. Apparently, you are all his mates and, therefore, may
have some influence.

--
De Oppresso Liber.

"Graham" wrote in message
...
I agree with Tas, i'm just a digger

I won't hold it against you, but you need more than a digger's eye view to
grasp some of this.

but i do see what is getting used the
most on deployments in this new climate and its not F111 (great aircraft
tho) and really i dont see them or a a new type being used often or at
all.

There's a Chinese bloke named Sun Tzu, he wrote a book called "The Art of
War". In it, he says the only true victory in a war is to not have to fight
it. Fighting it (and hopefully) then winning it, is a bit of a mug's game.
F111's (and their class of aircraft) are designed not to win wars by
fighting them but to win wars by preventing them. Show me an infantry
battalion that can do *that*.

When was the F111s last used in combat?

Ours? Never. The Yank's, Gulf War 1.

What is being used allmost to the breaking point is us (diggers) and our
equipment.

And you haven't even been in a proper war yet. Makes you worry, doesn't it?

We need more 50 to 100% full time battalions and the suport to go with it
(the suport is not there now).

Glad to see you're thinking above Private level. As they say, "Amateurs talk
tactics, professionals talk logistics". People who think infantry are the be
all and end all of the ADF are the sorts of people our enemies love. Easy to
outsmart.

More troop lift (blackhawks ect)

Hopefully, Air 9000 will deliver something more capable than that.

more Lavs ect

Agreed. Some proper APCs wouldn't go astray either.

and we definitely need more
sea transport landing types.

Concur. We should be doing more to develop Incat's product before the Yank's
steal another bloody good idea off us.

This is where our limited budget neads to go.

Can't agree with that. If we do it your way, we'll end up with an ADF that
will actually have to defend Australia. Sun Tzu wouldn't approve.

Truely I cant sea a situation where we will need the long range of the 111
to defend Aus, who is willing or wants to have a go at us?

I guess you haven't read the paper lately.

I just dont see
anyone out there who realy would have a go.

Wake up................. the rag-heads are on our case right now. If the
Intel revealed a al-Q or JI camp someplace that we couldn't openly get at,
wouldn't it makes sense to go in and bomb said camp with a plane that fly
across countries and avoid radar detection, hit the camp, and make it back
to international airspace without needing AAR 4 or 5 times?

The F111s are great but can we aford them now (old) and what is needed? ie
look at what is being used. We just dont have the $ for every thing we
need.

We would if we didn't waste millions on arts festivals for lefty ******s.

Spend the $ where its needed is what i say.

Spend the money where it will give us the most strategic value, I say.


--
De Oppresso Liber.

In article ,
says...
"Peter" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Yeah hi, can anyone tell me when the F111s were last deployed in combat?
have they ever? just asking.

We got them after Vietnam, some time in the mid 70s. I remember them
making
a flypast over the centre of Brisbane on their delivery flight.

The only "conflicts" we've had since then have been Gulf War,

East Timor,

RF111C's.

Aha. A technicality. Good man.

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:33:39 +1000, "The Raven"
wrote:

"Graham" wrote in message
...
Yeah hi, can anyone tell me when the F111s were last deployed in combat?

The Australian F-111's or just general F-111's?

have they ever? just asking.

I believe some were used in VN but not sure if that included Australia. I
would have thought Australia received them too late for VN.
US lost several in VN in the first deployment, probably due to TFR
failures, but since no bits and pieces were ever found...

I believe EF-111A's were used in First Gulf War, but I suspect the
last time they carried weapons was probably over Libya..

The were used as recently as GW One in combat.

I'd also hazard a guess they've been used for lots of non-combat missions
that aren't public record..........

E.Timor was probably a case were they publicly weren't used.........

"Brash" wrote in message
u...

Poor gate guard, it must suck knowing you are second rate.

Scratched record, no intelligent thought, scratched record, no
intelligent
thought.


Poor second rate gate guard.

Playing "last word" are we? The sure sign you've bitten off more than you
can chew.


gate guard - son you are a sad one indeed, tell us again about PTS using
RAAF Williamtown as a DZ.

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...


Poor gate guard, it must suck knowing you are second rate.

I see you've realised you've no cohesive argument to offer, but can't
admit
you're outclassed and need to resort to puerile one-liners. The more
you
pursue this "line of argument" the further proof you provide how
second-rate
and outclassed you are. Thanks for coming Private (Rtd), you can go
now.

Yawn, from the king of purile drivel that is quite a compliment.

You're starting to bore me. Did you parents have any children, or just
other
failed abortions?

Gate guard, you've always bored me.

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...

Thought you were.

Poor gate guard, it must suck knowing you are second rate.

What I really find amusing, is that I could happily smack ten shades
of
****
out of you and you think I'm a gate guard. How embarrassing it must be
for
you to know a mere "gate guard" could flog you to a bloody pulp.

and so gate guard descends into his fantasy world.

Except I'm not a gate guard. I don't where you get your delusions from.


I think the most pathetic thing I have seen on the net to date (aside
from
cretins like yourself trying to pick fights via the net), was your
public
display of your total lack of self esteem some time ago on one of the
binary groups, where you encouraged a number of ther posters to come
here
and tell me they thought you were 'cool'.

Sorry dickhead, but I think you're off on your own planet now. I did no
such
thing. I guess you've got me mixed up with someone else who knows what a
cretin you are.


Oh, I'm afraid you did.

Very sad indeed, but then I can see why you lack self esteem.