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#1
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I hate turn coordinators
Why is the turn coordinator so popular? I find the presentation similar to
the artificial horizon is poor. The good old turn needle never leads to any confusion. If the silly little airplane was replaced by a needle and dog houses, I think I'd like it better. The 4 minute needle gives superior turn rate information so you can more easily make standard of half standard rate turns. The Turn Coordinator's ability to sense both yaw and roll doesn't seem to be of much value to me. Overhaul Prices are higher for the TC. While I'm at it, how about venturi tube suction. Put a heater on them so they won't ice up and you no longer have to worry about a failing vacuum pump. Add one as an emergency vacuum source. Grump. Grump. Oh well. Both are being replaced by Electronic Primary Flight Display (Though I'll never be able to afford them) |
#2
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I hate turn coordinators
john hawkins wrote:
Why is the turn coordinator so popular? I find the presentation similar to the artificial horizon is poor. The good old turn needle never leads to any confusion. If the silly little airplane was replaced by a needle and dog houses, I think I'd like it better. The 4 minute needle gives superior turn rate information so you can more easily make standard of half standard rate turns. The Turn Coordinator's ability to sense both yaw and roll doesn't seem to be of much value to me. Overhaul Prices are higher for the TC. There's a difference: a needle-in-the-doghouse indicator feels turn rate only, but a turn coordinator senses additionally some of the roll rate to respond quicker. While I'm at it, how about venturi tube suction. Put a heater on them so they won't ice up and you no longer have to worry about a failing vacuum pump. Add one as an emergency vacuum source. Grump. Grump. Oh well. Both are being replaced by Electronic Primary Flight Display (Though I'll never be able to afford them) Me too - but would like to. -- Tauno Voipio (PA28RT201T, OH-PYM) tauno voipio (at) iki fi |
#3
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I hate turn coordinators
The TC will run a wing leveler autopilot.
"john hawkins" wrote in message hlink.net... | Why is the turn coordinator so popular? I find the presentation similar to | the artificial horizon is poor. The good old turn needle never leads to any | confusion. If the silly little airplane was replaced by a needle and dog | houses, I think I'd like it better. The 4 minute needle gives superior turn | rate information so you can more easily make standard of half standard rate | turns. The Turn Coordinator's ability to sense both yaw and roll doesn't | seem to be of much value to me. Overhaul Prices are higher for the TC. | | | | While I'm at it, how about venturi tube suction. Put a heater on them so | they won't ice up and you no longer have to worry about a failing vacuum | pump. Add one as an emergency vacuum source. | | | | Grump. Grump. | | | | Oh well. Both are being replaced by Electronic Primary Flight Display | (Though I'll never be able to afford them) | | |
#4
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I hate turn coordinators
Jim Macklin wrote:
The TC will run a wing leveler autopilot. Which is the only reason I have one. I had a needle-ball gauge until I put in the STEC autopilot. I think the TC was just one of those things that people thought were a cool idea in the 70's that turned out not to be all it was cracked up to be. |
#5
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I hate turn coordinators
IIRC they were invented by Brittain (sp?) specifically to provide an input to
their wing levelers and, I suppose, autopilots. On 2/4/2007 6:11 PM, Ron Natalie wrote the following: Jim Macklin wrote: The TC will run a wing leveler autopilot. Which is the only reason I have one. I had a needle-ball gauge until I put in the STEC autopilot. I think the TC was just one of those things that people thought were a cool idea in the 70's that turned out not to be all it was cracked up to be. |
#6
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I hate turn coordinators
Ron Natalie wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote: The TC will run a wing leveler autopilot. Which is the only reason I have one. I had a needle-ball gauge until I put in the STEC autopilot. I think the TC was just one of those things that people thought were a cool idea in the 70's that turned out not to be all it was cracked up to be. That would be my assessment. Alas, some airlines hated to maintain anything they didn't absolutely have to, so carrier TWx had their turn-and-bank indicators removed from their 727s once they gained federal approval. There was a tiny ball under the attidue indicator that was supposed to be "good enough" for engine failures. |
#7
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I hate turn coordinators
I like the needle better too. Kept it in my grumman in spite of all the
advice to remove it. john hawkins wrote: Why is the turn coordinator so popular? I find the presentation similar to the artificial horizon is poor. The good old turn needle never leads to any confusion. If the silly little airplane was replaced by a needle and dog houses, I think I'd like it better. The 4 minute needle gives superior turn rate information so you can more easily make standard of half standard rate turns. The Turn Coordinator's ability to sense both yaw and roll doesn't seem to be of much value to me. Overhaul Prices are higher for the TC. While I'm at it, how about venturi tube suction. Put a heater on them so they won't ice up and you no longer have to worry about a failing vacuum pump. Add one as an emergency vacuum source. Grump. Grump. Oh well. Both are being replaced by Electronic Primary Flight Display (Though I'll never be able to afford them) |
#8
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I hate turn coordinators
On Feb 4, 6:11 pm, Ron Natalie wrote:
I think the TC was just one of those things that people thought were a cool idea in the 70's that turned out not to be all it was cracked up to be. Try flying a slippery, fast, not-terribly-roll-stable airplane in turbulent IMC on a T&S, and you will quickly change your mind. The TC is a good idea. Not as good as a backup AI, and there is now an AC that allows you to remove the TC (or T&S) from your airplane if you replace it with a second AI powered from a different system than the primary AI. I seem to recall you fly a Navion. I've flown one. They're VERY stable. You can keep the wings level in turbulent IMC with a T&S in a Navion. I suspect you could probably do it with just a compass. I know it can be done in the TriPacer on just a compass. It's nearly impossible to keep the wings level in turbulent IMC in something like a Bonanza, a late model Mooney, or my Twin Comanche if all you have is a T&S. That's why your autopilot doesn't use one. By the time you have started to actually turn (developed a yaw rate, the only thing the T&S can sense) you already have too much roll rate going. The TC will respond to roll rate, and that makes all the difference. Having actually lost my attitude gyro in turnulent night IMC in my Twin Comanche, I am really glad I had the TC and not a T&S. A good rule of thumb for determining if your plane really needs a TC rather than a T&S - if, when doing partial panel work with a wet compass and no moving map, you find you miss the HI more than the AI, you don't need the T&S. Your plane is stable enough. If you miss the AI more, you need a TC. Michael |
#9
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I hate turn coordinators
On Feb 6, 9:20 am, "Michael"
wrote: ... and there is now an AC that allows you to remove the TC (or T&S) from your airplane if you replace it with a second AI powered from a different system than the primary AI. Michael Even knowing this, when the DE asked for required equipment for IFR flight, I still included the TC (second R in grabcard). ak. |
#10
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I hate turn coordinators
Michael wrote:
It's nearly impossible to keep the wings level in turbulent IMC in something like a Bonanza, a late model Mooney, or my Twin Comanche if all you have is a T&S. That's why your autopilot doesn't use one. By the time you have started to actually turn (developed a yaw rate, the only thing the T&S can sense) you already have too much roll rate going. The TC will respond to roll rate, and that makes all the difference. I own a Bonanza. I fly the Oregon/Washington Cascade mountains on a regular basis, especially in the summer. It has a T&S. I'm not God's gift to aviation, but the T&S does fine for me. -- Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR |
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