Express Aircraft of Olympia WA quits

It's very sad -- but the CPA has raised almost $20K for them, just in
little
donations from members, in just a few days.
I find that to be amazing. The CPA is really a great group of folks.


Not quite. We just broke $3000, not $20K.

Whoops. That was supposed to be "$2K" when I wrote it...

A zero here, a zero there -- pretty soon you're talking real money...

Glad to hear we've broken $3K!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

They are selling their molds also.
http://www.express-aircraft.com/fiberglass_molds.htm


"Montblack" wrote in message
...
("Antonio dancingstar" wrote)
Here's a news scoop for you all...

Express Aircraft Company, formerly Wheeler Express, has gone out of
business. Apparently TCM (Teledyne Continental Motors) was unable to
honor shipment of their "Full Authority Digital Engine Control" (FADEC)
IOF-550 engines which Express had banked on, promised out, and designed
around, which left them in dire straits.

(specs and price $150,000 OBO)
http://www.express-aircraft.com/Aircraft%20Specs.htm

N511EA was registered in 1999 and has 731 hours total time since new.

Engine/HP Continental IO-550-N (310hp)

Prop Hartzell 3-Blade Constant Speed

Landing Gear Fixed Tricycle

Cabin Width (Front/Rear) ...46"/44"

Payload (with/140 gallons of fuel) ...935 lbs.

Cruise @ 75% ....175 kts TAS

Stall Speed Vs1 ...55 kts
Stall Speed Vs0 ...53 kts

Range @ 75% Power ...1,800 nm
Rate of Climb (Gross) ...1,200 fpm

Maximum Service Ceiling ....20,000 ft.

$150,000 (OBO) ...offer $85K and see what happens g.


Montblack

...that most
unusual of all combinations in people: Stupidity and money.

Hah! You obviously haven't spent much time around an upscale marina.

Actually, I have -- I grew up on the shores of Lake Michigan.

Huge money, huge boats, huge parties -- and certainly a bunch of stupid
actions. I've seen guys so drunk that they simply fell off the back of
their 48-foot yachts, and had to be fished out with a pole.

However, although those people act like fools on the weekends, in my
experience they rarely act that way when it comes to investing their money.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I think he was referring to Boats in the sense of them being an
alternative "Money Pit". The joke is down here in Houston (with the
largest recreational boat fleet in the US on Clear Lake) that you can
save lots of time by just going out to the peir and dumping your money
in the water by the bucket.. instead of actually spending it on your
boat.... Kinda like airplanes... now that your think of it.

Dave

Jay Honeck wrote:
...that most
unusual of all combinations in people: Stupidity and money.

Hah! You obviously haven't spent much time around an upscale marina.


Actually, I have -- I grew up on the shores of Lake Michigan.

Huge money, huge boats, huge parties -- and certainly a bunch of stupid
actions. I've seen guys so drunk that they simply fell off the back of
their 48-foot yachts, and had to be fished out with a pole.

However, although those people act like fools on the weekends, in my
experience they rarely act that way when it comes to investing their money.

Dave S wrote:

Hah! You obviously haven't spent much time around an upscale marina.

I think he was referring to Boats in the sense of them being an
alternative "Money Pit". The joke is down here in Houston (with the
largest recreational boat fleet in the US on Clear Lake) that you can
save lots of time by just going out to the peir and dumping your money
in the water by the bucket.. instead of actually spending it on your
boat.... Kinda like airplanes... now that your think of it.

Actually I think he meant that there are lots of old boats still in use,
built by companies no longer in business. Lack of factory support hasn't
sunk them...

The unions would NEVER let that happen at Cessna and Piper with regards
to "outsourcing". Vans wasn't taking jobs from Americans who were
already working for them when they made the outsourcing decision, or if
they did, it wasn't nearly on the scale of what Cessna, Piper or Beech
would have to undertake.

And how many of us would be willing or able to shell out for a
quickbuild that was preassembled at the rate of $20-30 and hour?

Dave

NW_PILOT wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Dan Luke wrote:


"Jay Honeck" wrote:


Here's a news scoop for you all...

Another one:

Amazingly, it's being reported that Commander Aircraft has found "new
investors" and is back up and running.

Ya just gotta wonder where these guys keep finding investors?


What's even more amazing to me is that they will find customers if they

get

back into production. Would you buy a new Commander (or Mooney, for

that

matter) knowing the shakey history of the company?

Which one's aren't shakey these days? The New Piper? Cessna who just
up and quit production a few years ago and likely will do so again in a
few more years? Cirrus? They seem to be on a roll, but who knows how
long that will last. I think buying any GA aircraft smaller than a
business jet is risky if you are worried about the maker going TU. The
good thing is that most discontinued airplanes seem to find someone to
keep them in the air.


Matt



Look at VANS aircraft kits, they are Simi local to me I went on a factory
tour and asked a question! Where is the place in the factory that puts the
quick build kits together? They responded they make the parts here send them
over seas to be put together and then they are shipped back here! Maybe
piper or Cessna may start doing this maybe they could save a bunch of money.

Dave S wrote:

And how many of us would be willing or able to shell out for a
quickbuild that was preassembled at the rate of $20-30 and hour?

Well, the Bearhawk people down in Mexico have delivered at least 37 in a little over
two years.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Dave S wrote:

And how many of us would be willing or able to shell out for a
quickbuild that was preassembled at the rate of $20-30 and hour?


Well, the Bearhawk people down in Mexico have delivered at least 37 in a little over
two years.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

I think Mexico counts as outsourced labor and I doubt they are paying
that kind of rate down there.

Dave

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"Dude" wrote:
I can see you point, but you are really stretching here IMO. First,
Mooney
now has a quality level similar to that of Beech.

Maybe so, but says who?


Me, I compared. Also a recent mag article agreed.

Second, there are
financially sound manufacturers who have left buyers in similar
situations
even without going TU.

Cite?


The only specific I can name by buyer is Art P who got a Cirrus lemon beyond
compare. However, we have all heard stories about C, P, and B leaving a
customer in a lurch. Here's an idea, call Cessna and ask a question about
recommendations on how to fix your plane. See if you like their "service".
I recently saw a new 182 with bad paint that the guy had to fight for 6
months to get fixed. Have you ever talked to people in the next hangar?


So the plane needs a new spar, that does not make the plane worthless.

I didn't say it did. Airplanes get parked for a lot less than total
loss.
What do you reckon replacing the main spar would cost? Even if the owner
bites the bullet and fixes the spar, he's still screwed for an awful lot
of
money. Plus, his airplane now has a major repair in the logs, which will
affect its value.


There are lots of bad things that can screw you out of lots of money that
are more likely to happen. Sit and worry if you will. BTW, did any Mooney
owners ever get burned on their warranties? I remember they were worried,
but do not recall if the new company cleared it up each time.


I suppose you are of the everything but Beech and Cessna is a cr*p
sandwich
variety?

Why do you suppose that? You're setting some kind of record for putting
words in my mouth.


Note the question mark. I didn't put words in anyones mouth. I have had it
up to hear with these attitudes, and they mostly end up being about the
same. Sorry if you don't quite fit the mold.



One day, barring a new design that is not forthcoming, those guys will
pull
out of piston planes for good.

Here, I agree with you.

If they don't manage to kill off our little
hobby (which they would do in a minute if they could sell more jets by
doing
it),

It's no secret that B and C are dubious about the pi


No, but you are worried about losing lots of money. Tried selling an orphan
lately? Furthermore, I believe they will do whatever they think costs least
in the long run. One day, some accountant in either company says they
should stop making parts, they will do it. CORRECT OR NOT!


what do you plan to do?

Are you willing to buy a Cirrus, Diamond, or Lancair?

I seriously doubt I'll *ever* buy a new airplane. If I were in the
market,
I would consider the above. Under no circumstances would I consider an
old
design from a company that had just emerged from bankruptcy.


Its nice to know there is hope for you. I can understand not buying new,
and I can understand being wary of a recent bankruptcy. What I don't
understand is your motivation to comment at all. Serious, if you are not
ever going to buy new, then where do you get off telling people that buy a
new Mooney they are stupid. What do you know about it all?

People who keep up the
"nuth'n but a Cessna" attitude are just killing GA slowly. I see them
running all over the alphabet organizations, including AOPA. It's so
disappointing.

Uh, Cirrus is selling 40 piston planes a month; that's more than Cessna.
So
tell me again: how is the "nuth'n but a Cessna" attitude killing GA?
--

40 is not enough to get the level of investment we need for real innovation.
Please compare to the hundreds a month levels of production from the days of
yore. New investors are looking at Cirrus, and have to be thinking that
they are nuts to risk so much money. Only aviation enthusiasts are going to
play, which may be a positive, but we really need to attract more pilots and
more money. Companies like Cessna exist in many fields, and they keep
investment down due to their sheer market presence. The difference between
Cessna and Microsoft is that MS has done something new in the last 10 or 20
years for its customers.

: There are lots of bad things that can screw you out of lots of money that
: are more likely to happen. Sit and worry if you will. BTW, did any Mooney
: owners ever get burned on their warranties? I remember they were worried,
: but do not recall if the new company cleared it up each time.

I'm almost afraid to join this discussion. A fiend of mine bought a 2002 or
2003 model Mooney Ovation2 from a private seller, with 125 hours TT.
This was one of last aircraft made in the previous Mooney incarnation.
He bought just after the newest Mooney restarted production and was giving
fire sale prices on new M20R airplanes.

He got the thing for 1/2 the original price, with the caveat that there
was absolutely no warranty whatsoever. The seller took a hit of something
like $150K.

He has made a couple of minor repairs of the type that would be covered by
a warranty if one were to exist, but these have cost him much less than the
$150K "discount" he got.

Now the paint is now flaking off each and every flush rivet on both
wings. This would likely be covered by a warranty if there was one, but as
there's no warranty he's going to ignore it for a while.

So, the incoming administration at Mooney had no difficulties tearing up
the warranties on all of the airplanes that had been produced before they
took over. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just that it happened.

--
Aaron Coolidge