flight training - 100nm night flight requirement

The other pilot flies the plane back during your visit of your cousin? How
do you get home? Why is that preferable to just flying your own
cross-country alone?


If i fly the cross-country alone, and keep the plane for my (three week) visit
with my cousins, the FBO or club doesn't get to use the plane. An FBO would
charge me UmGods of dollars to let the plane sit there. In a club situation I
get to keep the plane, but nobody gets to fly it. I come home with my cousin,
who drives me (she wanted to see my house and sit in my hot tub), and I'm on
the way to her folk festival that weekend.


And how does that other pilot get back to HIS home
base (he didn't come with you, since your cross-country needs to be made
solo).


The other pilot is flying the plane back to his home base. He was already up
here, having dropped his son off at College, and leaving him the family station
wagon.

Or, Fred (who wants the plane to visit HIS cousin for two weeks down in
Florida) arranges to meet me at my distant airport after his half of a $100
hamburger, which he flew with a third pilot who happens to like the sushi
restaurant in town. He takes my plane and goes to Florida, I don't have to pay
daily minima,
Fred brings the airplane back to its home base on his nickel, and he's happy
because otherwise he'd have to take a commercial plane to Florida, and submit
to the TSA.

We're a little off the track here, and I admit that it's an uncommon scenario.
But the regs don't say the flight has to be a common scenario.

Oh, wait a minute, this nonsense about "common purpose" for taking passengers
sort of goes against "uncommon scenaria", doesn't it.

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
[...]
We're a little off the track here, and I admit that it's an uncommon
scenario.
But the regs don't say the flight has to be a common scenario.

I never said it did, nor did I ever say it was an impossible scenario.

But you have to admit, as *possible* as the scenario you posit might be, I
would be willing to bet a modest amount of money it has never actually
occurred in real life. I still don't see why anyone would bother, since the
logistics involved in such a convoluted and contrived situation are
mind-bogglingly complex, relying on at least FOUR independent prerequisites.

I have no idea why you have invested so much effort in this idea, since no
one is arguing with you about any of it. But I hope you've gained whatever
satisfaction you intended.

Pete

I agree with George...

and a "round robin" sight seeing trip does not count as a cross country..
you can fly 60nm out and 60nm back.. and not touch the ground except for
where you started from and it's not countable as a cross country for
advancement of ratings purposes..

Thanx that all those 14 hours missions in B-52s out and returns with no
distant landings.. were countable..

BT

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Teacherjh wrote:

Could I count as satisfying 61.129 (a) (4) (i) a flight consisting of:

1: a leg from A to B of 200 nm, followed by
2: a leg from B to C of 200 nm (total straight line distance 340 nm)
followed
by
3: a loop around the pattern (a leg from C to C) and another landing.

I've landed at three points, ...

No, you've landed at two points. You've landed at one of them twice.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

I agree with George...

and a "round robin" sight seeing trip does not count as a cross country..
you can fly 60nm out and 60nm back..


But what about the fixed version, where I loop around the pattern at A, then
land at B and C. NOW I"ve landed at three places....

and a leg that does not count as a cross country can be part of a FLIGHT that
does count, and therefore the time could count.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

I'M NOT SURE
But I would think that a T&G at Airport A may not really count.. as you have
not STARTED your X-C until you "leave" the airport.. headed for Airport B

a definition of which came first .. the chicken or the egg..

BT

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

I agree with George...

and a "round robin" sight seeing trip does not count as a cross country..
you can fly 60nm out and 60nm back..


But what about the fixed version, where I loop around the pattern at A,
then
land at B and C. NOW I"ve landed at three places....

and a leg that does not count as a cross country can be part of a FLIGHT
that
does count, and therefore the time could count.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:m5vnc.17325$k24.4710@fed1read01...
I'M NOT SURE
But I would think that a T&G at Airport A may not really count.. as you
have
not STARTED your X-C until you "leave" the airport.. headed for Airport B

You log the time from the moment the airplane begins to move under its own
power for the purpose of flight. So the flight definitely starts before you
leave the airport. It starts before you take off for the first time.

I see no reason why a touch-and-go at the point of departure would not
qualify. After all, a more conventional cross-country flight would include
the landing at the end of the flight that occurs at the point of departure
(which is also the final destination). Why would it matter whether the
landing happened at the beginning or the end of the cross-country?

a definition of which came first .. the chicken or the egg..

I don't think so.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

However, what point would there be in landing once at your point of origin,
and terminating the flight at airport C? Someone has to get the plane back
at some point.

Well, if I go for the Commercial certificate, I will use one of my flights to
Lakeland, Oshkosh, or a similar destination to meet that requirement. Yes, the plane
got back to point A eventually, but not on that flight.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

Teacherjh wrote:

But what about the fixed version, where I loop around the pattern at A, then
land at B and C. NOW I"ve landed at three places....

In my opinion, that meets the letter of the regulation.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...
[...]
Well, if I go for the Commercial certificate, I will use one of my flights
to
Lakeland, Oshkosh, or a similar destination to meet that requirement. Yes,
the plane
got back to point A eventually, but not on that flight.

The entire flight would be usable for the new rating though. You may not
need to log the flight as the round-trip, but the flight IS a round-trip,
and you would be permitted to log it that way if it was necessary to qualify
for the rating.

If you will go back and read what has been said, you'll see that all I'm
trying to say is that I don't think it likely that someone will take
advantage of the "loophole" Jose found that allows the flight to simply
terminate 250 NM away from home. Like Jose, you are arguing an argument
that doesn't even exist. I don't disagree with what you wrote, but what you
wrote isn't relevant to what I said.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

The entire flight would be usable for the new rating though. You may not
need to log the flight as the round-trip, but the flight IS a round-trip,
and you would be permitted to log it that way if it was necessary to qualify
for the rating.

As far as I'm concerned, if I fly to Lakeland for S&F, stay a week, and fly back,
that's two flights, not one.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.