The Swearingen-TEB incident: control issues with twins

This is the best latest (Google, 5/31/05, 1700 EDT) on the TEB incident
today.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?...ZWVFRX l5Mg==

I heard earlier on NY CBS Radio that the pilot reported "engine trouble" on
approach and that a witness saw the plane making contact with the runway
right-wing-down, almost 90 degrees.

I'm a ASEL primary student. What's the skinny on multi-engine control issues
when one engine fails on approach?

My understanding is that the aircraft will tend to roll due to the side
with the failed engine having less lift. My CFI was explaining this to me
some time ago.

Engine failure would require immediate and extreme rudder input and
feathering the props on the failed engine to reduce the drag. He said
something about "Lawn Dart" and that it can happen in a blink of the eye.

I'm a ASEL primary student. What's the skinny on multi-engine control
issues when one engine fails on approach?

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

An engine failure in a twin is far more hazardous on takeoff than on
approach, because the "good" engine is trying to turn the airplane upside
down and frequently succeeds. On approach, with power reduced, it is
sometimes difficult to even sense that an engine has failed. Emphasize
"sometimes." I have no experience with Swearingens and/or how power is set
on approach. Many turboprops have a negative-torque sensor that
automatically feathers the prop on a failed engine...but this is a good
thing, as Martha Stewart might say...no drag on the failed engine side, low
power(?) on the good engine side. Shouldn't result in a 90 degree roll.

Bob Gardner

"R.L." wrote in message
. ..
This is the best latest (Google, 5/31/05, 1700 EDT) on the TEB incident
today.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?...ZWVFRX l5Mg==

I heard earlier on NY CBS Radio that the pilot reported "engine trouble"
on
approach and that a witness saw the plane making contact with the runway
right-wing-down, almost 90 degrees.

I'm a ASEL primary student. What's the skinny on multi-engine control
issues
when one engine fails on approach?

wrote in message
...
My understanding is that the aircraft will tend to roll due to the side
with the failed engine having less lift. My CFI was explaining this to me
some time ago.

Engine failure would require immediate and extreme rudder input and
feathering the props on the failed engine to reduce the drag. He said
something about "Lawn Dart" and that it can happen in a blink of the eye.

I'm a ASEL primary student. What's the skinny on multi-engine control
issues when one engine fails on approach?

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

Maybe someday your CFI will get a multi engine rating and know what he is
talking about.

Mike
MU-2

He has multi and ATP.... If you know more then explain... No need for
the negativity without explaination...

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 00:04:01 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
My understanding is that the aircraft will tend to roll due to the side
with the failed engine having less lift. My CFI was explaining this to me
some time ago.

Engine failure would require immediate and extreme rudder input and
feathering the props on the failed engine to reduce the drag. He said
something about "Lawn Dart" and that it can happen in a blink of the eye.

I'm a ASEL primary student. What's the skinny on multi-engine control
issues when one engine fails on approach?

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

Maybe someday your CFI will get a multi engine rating and know what he is
talking about.

Mike
MU-2



Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

unless he just got to slow.. but low power below Vmc should not be that
bad.. unless he pushed it up fast and forgot his Vmc demos.. hard to believe
because I'm sure they are practiced in the SIM on a regular basis

BT

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
An engine failure in a twin is far more hazardous on takeoff than on
approach, because the "good" engine is trying to turn the airplane upside
down and frequently succeeds. On approach, with power reduced, it is
sometimes difficult to even sense that an engine has failed. Emphasize
"sometimes." I have no experience with Swearingens and/or how power is set
on approach. Many turboprops have a negative-torque sensor that
automatically feathers the prop on a failed engine...but this is a good
thing, as Martha Stewart might say...no drag on the failed engine side,
low power(?) on the good engine side. Shouldn't result in a 90 degree
roll.

Bob Gardner

"R.L." wrote in message
. ..
This is the best latest (Google, 5/31/05, 1700 EDT) on the TEB incident
today.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?...ZWVFRX l5Mg==

I heard earlier on NY CBS Radio that the pilot reported "engine trouble"
on
approach and that a witness saw the plane making contact with the runway
right-wing-down, almost 90 degrees.

I'm a ASEL primary student. What's the skinny on multi-engine control
issues
when one engine fails on approach?

Re-Reading the original post on this subject made me realize
something... The plane was on approach not on a departure... If that
makes a difference on the effect of loosing an engine, I do not know.
I would certainly suspect it would make a difference since I would
think on approach engines would be on a low power setting...

On 31 May 2005 22:17:51 GMT, wrote:

My understanding is that the aircraft will tend to roll due to the side
with the failed engine having less lift. My CFI was explaining this to me
some time ago.

Engine failure would require immediate and extreme rudder input and
feathering the props on the failed engine to reduce the drag. He said
something about "Lawn Dart" and that it can happen in a blink of the eye.

I'm a ASEL primary student. What's the skinny on multi-engine control
issues when one engine fails on approach?


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

Maybe he was planning to go around and lost it in the power increase?

"Bob Gardner" wrote in
:

An engine failure in a twin is far more hazardous on takeoff than on
approach, because the "good" engine is trying to turn the airplane
upside down and frequently succeeds. On approach, with power reduced,
it is sometimes difficult to even sense that an engine has failed.
Emphasize "sometimes." I have no experience with Swearingens and/or
how power is set on approach. Many turboprops have a negative-torque
sensor that automatically feathers the prop on a failed engine...but
this is a good thing, as Martha Stewart might say...no drag on the
failed engine side, low power(?) on the good engine side. Shouldn't
result in a 90 degree roll.

Bob Gardner

snip

On 5/31/2005 6:57 PM, Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:

Re-Reading the original post on this subject made me realize
something... The plane was on approach not on a departure... If that
makes a difference on the effect of loosing an engine, I do not know.
I would certainly suspect it would make a difference since I would
think on approach engines would be on a low power setting...

I was assuming he didn't like the approach, and decided to
go around ... then added full power on the remaining engine.

This is assumption on my part, as I have no additional information.


On 31 May 2005 22:17:51 GMT, wrote:

My understanding is that the aircraft will tend to roll due to the side
with the failed engine having less lift. My CFI was explaining this to me
some time ago.

Engine failure would require immediate and extreme rudder input and
feathering the props on the failed engine to reduce the drag. He said
something about "Lawn Dart" and that it can happen in a blink of the eye.

I'm a ASEL primary student. What's the skinny on multi-engine control
issues when one engine fails on approach?


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

Judah wrote:
Maybe he was planning to go around and lost it in the power increase?

With one or two engines operating, it's possible to lose it in a high
performance aircraft go-around if you're not prepared for the pitch-up
as power is abruptly added, the airplane is improperly trimmed, you're
dealing with a particularly nasty, gusty wind flowing over some trees
about 50-75 feet high, and you suddenly find yourself a bit slower than
you'd like.

Case in point:

Text:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...05X02197&key=1

Key:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...02LA017&rpt=fi

If those links don't work, search for Pittstown, NJ, Beech, Oct 26, 2001.

I looked over the accident aircraft and couldn't believe my eyes.
Although upside down and the tail bent beyond repair, the passenger
compartment was intact and my mechanic (based at the field) told me the
pilot & his wife walked away shaken, not stirred.

I was sold on Beech products from that day forward. Not that I have any
intention to test the strength of the Beech design, I pray my next
aircraft is either a Bonanza or Baron.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------