ATC assigned altitude?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Benjamin Dover writes:

If you had ever sat in a real Piper or a real Cessna, you would know
that it is safer for the Piper to climb than to descend.

Neither is safe if you do not have visual contact with the other
traffic.

If neither aircraft has visual contact with the other, and no other
information is available, neither aircraft should take any special
action. If visual contact is available, the pilot(s) with contact
should see and avoid. If no visual contact has been made by either
pilot, but one or both pilots has other reliable sources of
information allowing the aircraft to determine their positions
relative to each other, those sources can be used to determine what
action, if any, should be taken.

In this situation, it might help to share information on airspeed or
DME from the LAX VOR, either of which might help to locate the
aircraft in relation to each other. I suggest LAX because it's almost
at right angles to the SFRA route, whereas SMO would see both aircraft
one behind the other. Of course, if they are very close, DME might
not be reliable.

I've wondered in the past exactly how aircraft coordinate their
movements in the SFRA, since the corridor in each direction is
extremely narrow.


As previouls stated, had you ever sat in a real Piper and a real Cessna,
you would know that a climb in the Piper is not a 50/50 guess. But you
haven't and moronically continue to spout bull****.

You don't know **** from shinola.

Do you think in a conventional high wing Cessna vs a conventional low
wing airplane, (thinking horses here, not zebras here) since low wings
tend to cruise a bit faster, it would have been prudent to increase
airspeed to the maximum available and accelerate away from the threat?

The most likely blind spots would have been below or behind you. Since
you were crossing LAX it seems to me unlikely the other airplane would
have been changing alititude.

This of course is all being viewed through my hindoscope -- I have 20
20 vision looking back!



On May 18, 6:27 pm, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 14:30:55 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote in
:

That's a great way to use up a significant chunk of the error budget.

That was my first thought too.

However, it also brought to mind a somewhat tense situation I
experienced while VFR transiting over KLAX via the Special Flight
Rules Area:http://skyvector.com/#35-24-3-2785-2374

The ledged for the LAXSFRA is on the VFR Terminal chart (accessible by
clicking the Charts icon at the top of the page at that link above),
and basically indicates that SE bound flights cross over the KLAX
runways at 3,500' and NW bound flights at 4,500' squawking 1201 and
communicating air-to-air on 128.55 MHz with periodic self announced
position reports. ATC is not involved.

I was flying a low-wing, and announced my position as over the
southern boundary of the field, and immediately subsequent a Cessna
reported being at the same position and altitude. I wanted to take
evasive action, but without the Cessna in sight, there was no good way
of knowing exactly what that might be. I announced again, and so did
the Cessna, but we did not sight each other. The atmosphere got more
tense as the moments ticked by, and I kept expecting the sounds of
impact at any second. I considered maneuvering again, but finally
decided, that currently I was okay, and doing nothing would likely not
change that.

I suppose I could have assumed that the Cessna was below me, and
climbed a 100', but I didn't.

On May 19, 10:27*am, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 14:30:55 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote in
:

That's a great way to use up a significant chunk of the error budget.

That was my first thought too.

However, it also brought to mind a somewhat tense situation I
experienced while VFR transiting over KLAX via the Special Flight
Rules Area:http://skyvector.com/#35-24-3-2785-2374

The ledged for the LAXSFRA is on the VFR Terminal chart (accessible by
clicking the Charts icon at the top of the page at that link above),
and basically indicates that SE bound flights cross over the KLAX
runways at 3,500' and NW bound flights at 4,500' squawking 1201 and
communicating air-to-air on 128.55 MHz with periodic self announced
position reports. *ATC is not involved.

I was flying a low-wing, and announced my position as over the
southern boundary of the field, and immediately subsequent a Cessna
reported being at the same position and altitude. *I wanted to take
evasive action, but without the Cessna in sight, there was no good way
of knowing exactly what that might be. *I announced again, and so did
the Cessna, but we did not sight each other. *The atmosphere got more
tense as the moments ticked by, and I kept expecting the sounds of
impact at any second. *I considered maneuvering again, but finally
decided, that currently I was okay, and doing nothing would likely not
change that. *

I suppose I could have assumed that the Cessna was below me, and
climbed a 100', but I didn't.

Sounds like a dicey situation. I think that if you were in radio
contact the correct response would be tell the other aircraft what
your intentions are and if in the pattern that would be to hold height
and increase speed ...

You are obviously not going to run into the back of him and raising
speed should let him see you as you draw ahead.

Cheers

On Mon, 19 May 2008 03:42:31 -0700 (PDT), Tina
wrote in
:

Do you think in a conventional high wing Cessna vs a conventional low
wing airplane, (thinking horses here, not zebras here) since low wings
tend to cruise a bit faster, it would have been prudent to increase
airspeed to the maximum available and accelerate away from the threat?


Perhaps. However, I'm not sure there was a significant speed
differential available.

The most likely blind spots would have been below or behind you.

It's also difficult to see directly above in a PA28 without banking.

Since you were crossing LAX it seems to me unlikely the other airplane would
have been changing alititude.

That's what I was hoping, but I've seen a lot of strange things occur
in the LA basin over the years.

On May 18, 10:29 pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote :



Benjamin Dover contributed to global warming with this opinion:
snippage

You don't know **** from shinola.

....and another tidbit of wisdom from a pilgrim on the low road taken
all too frequently by the folks on this group.

Did you not learn from yo' momma? IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO
SAY KEEP YOUR PIEHOLE SHUT.

wrote in
:

On May 18, 10:29 pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote
:



Benjamin Dover contributed to global warming with this opinion:
snippage

You don't know **** from shinola.

...and another tidbit of wisdom from a pilgrim on the low road taken
all too frequently by the folks on this group.

Did you not learn from yo' momma? IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO
SAY KEEP YOUR PIEHOLE SHUT.


That wasn't my momma, that was thumper's momma.. ...

Bertie

wrote in
:

On May 18, 10:29 pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote
:



Benjamin Dover contributed to global warming with this opinion:
snippage

You don't know **** from shinola.

...and another tidbit of wisdom from a pilgrim on the low road taken
all too frequently by the folks on this group.

Did you not learn from yo' momma? IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO
SAY KEEP YOUR PIEHOLE SHUT.

Hmmm. So you think you know **** from shinola?

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Tina wrote:

We have agreed on VFR cross country flights (something that we very
rarely do) we will hold that kind of offset to the altitude rule as a
matter of routine: you might consider doing that too.

The big sky theory holds true.
How accurate is your altimeter?
How accurate is everyone else's altimeter?

Damn close. I've used this method VFR, 7600, 9600, etc. for years, and I
have missed 2 aircraft by about 100'. I never saw either of them before they
passed. 1 was a C210 @ 12,500, I was in a C-340 @ 12,600. I first spotted
him passing underneath me, and he never even bobbled his wings. The second
was a C182, I was in a C206, again right to left, again below me. He had red
gas caps, and the left one was leaking a bit.(light blue stripe directly
aft).

I don't track the centerline of an airway(.5 mile offset), nor pass
directly over a VOR(lead the turn).

I don't even like the term "Terminal Area", and I don't call on "Final
Approach". Hell, I don't even hit an intersection.

Al G CFIAMI

On May 19, 1:58 pm, Buster Hymen wrote:
wrote :



On May 18, 10:29 pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote
:

Benjamin Dover contributed to global warming with this opinion:
snippage

You don't know **** from shinola.

...and another tidbit of wisdom from a pilgrim on the low road taken
all too frequently by the folks on this group.

Did you not learn from yo' momma? IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO
SAY KEEP YOUR PIEHOLE SHUT.

Hmmm. So you think you know **** from shinola?

I think you learned your debate technique from MX.

wrote in
:

On May 19, 1:58 pm, Buster Hymen wrote:
wrote

:



On May 18, 10:29 pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote
:

Benjamin Dover contributed to global warming with this opinion:
snippage

You don't know **** from shinola.

...and another tidbit of wisdom from a pilgrim on the low road
taken all too frequently by the folks on this group.

Did you not learn from yo' momma? IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE
TO SAY KEEP YOUR PIEHOLE SHUT.

Hmmm. So you think you know **** from shinola?

I think you learned your debate technique from MX.


Fjukktard!