Best performing Vario?

A pilot with the skills to be a world champion does not need much help from a vario. Some of us do,sadly! Having said that, I appreciate that what matters is that the vario produces good basic info rather than having more bells and whistles. At the moment from this thread there does not seem to be agreement about whether or not the latest devices which have the best bells and whistles also give the best basic info.

I think the problem is simply that these characteristics of the varios can not (or at least are not) measured that easily and all you will hear from the pilots are subjective views. In theory an inertially compensated vario like from Butterfly should be best, but I guess it really depends on the pilot and his familiarity with the vario. Just like when you fly a new glider you will also need a bit of time to get used to a new vario.

"In theory an inertially compensated vario like from Butterfly should be best,"

It all depends on the software. I am not convinced that anyone has yet developed software to take full advantage of the sophisticated sensors to provide better information to the pilot. I have been told that the LX varios V5/V7 have similar sensors to the Butterfly but that the current firmware does not take advantage of them.

On Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:36:45 AM UTC+2, waremark wrote:
"In theory an inertially compensated vario like from Butterfly should be best,"



It all depends on the software. I am not convinced that anyone has yet developed software to take full advantage of the sophisticated sensors to provide better information to the pilot. I have been told that the LX varios V5/V7 have similar sensors to the Butterfly but that the current firmware does not take advantage of them.

I highly doubt that V5/V7 have magnetometer sensor or rate gyros, probably only acceleration sensors. Why would they sell rate gyro box as optional unit for LX8000/9000 if it is already built inside V5? LX Nav has been having so much problems with V7 firmware over couple of years that I'm not surprised at all if they can't use any of the fancy sensors.

I am not convinced that anyone has yet developed software to take full advantage of the sophisticated sensors to provide better information to the pilot.

Then you should have a closer look at the Butterfly vario. Some friends of mine fly with that device and once it is fitted in and calibrated properly it seems to work quite well. Without having a software that takes advantage of these sensors it wouldn't be possible to measure the current wind 20 times per second...

The ClearNav vario has the same sensor, but from what I have been told it is indeed not using them yet. The LX devices only have acceleration sensors AFAIK.

There are not many comments or reviews about this futuristic and advanced
Butterfly vario "the golden vario" (given the price..).
Do you have any more details? In theory it should combine using vertical
acceleration with baro to feel lifts like we do with out sophisticated and
trained bottoms.

the wind measured 20 times a second does not impress me. In the end it
should be averaged to 5-10 seconds to be of any use, otherwise you just read
out gusts.
Accuracy , i think, will be great.. but for that price!!
But that's the future I think.

"Tobias Bieniek" wrote in message
...

I am not convinced that anyone has yet developed software to take full
advantage of the sophisticated sensors to provide better information to
the pilot.

Then you should have a closer look at the Butterfly vario. Some friends of
mine fly with that device and once it is fitted in and calibrated properly
it seems to work quite well. Without having a software that takes advantage
of these sensors it wouldn't be possible to measure the current wind 20
times per second...

The ClearNav vario has the same sensor, but from what I have been told it is
indeed not using them yet. The LX devices only have acceleration sensors
AFAIK.

This reminds me of the old adage I learned in the Air Force: "Measure with
a micrometer, mark with a grease pencil, cut with an axe."

Seriously - 20 samples per second? Engineers put men on the moon with slide
rules. You just don't need the kind of accuracy being touted these days.


"pcool" wrote in message
...
There are not many comments or reviews about this futuristic and advanced
Butterfly vario "the golden vario" (given the price..).
Do you have any more details? In theory it should combine using vertical
acceleration with baro to feel lifts like we do with out sophisticated and
trained bottoms.

the wind measured 20 times a second does not impress me. In the end it
should be averaged to 5-10 seconds to be of any use, otherwise you just
read out gusts.
Accuracy , i think, will be great.. but for that price!!
But that's the future I think.

"Tobias Bieniek" wrote in message
...

I am not convinced that anyone has yet developed software to take full
advantage of the sophisticated sensors to provide better information to
the pilot.

Then you should have a closer look at the Butterfly vario. Some friends of
mine fly with that device and once it is fitted in and calibrated properly
it seems to work quite well. Without having a software that takes
advantage of these sensors it wouldn't be possible to measure the current
wind 20 times per second...

The ClearNav vario has the same sensor, but from what I have been told it
is indeed not using them yet. The LX devices only have acceleration
sensors AFAIK.

On Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:04:18 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:

Seriously - 20 samples per second?

Seems like it would be pretty hard to get a good digital discrete measurement in turbulence.

Maybe you need a large number of samples to get a statistical valid measurement? Take 100 samples, throw out the outliers, munge the rest. Run calculation on a high confidence number.

well since I did my master thesis for Butterfly I have a bit of insight, did it on another topic/product though

the hardware consists of a few pressure sensors (static, total, TE), 3D acceleration, 3D angular rate (gyro) and 3D magnetic sensors and a GPS chip. all that data is measured at a high rate and precision and is then filtered by an advanced algorithm which I guess is some form of Kalman filter.

this filter is able to filter out horizontal gusts because it knows about the exact position, orientation and velocity of your aircraft in space. a side product from that is the artificial horizon feature and the option to measure the wind effect on your aircraft at a high rate. as far as I know it shows you a tactile wind, that is averaged over a few minutes, and a direct wind, which is the actual current wind.

yes, the vario is pretty expensive. it has been in development for quite some time and from what I have heard the creator of the SR940 and Zander ZS1 was also involved in the development process.

on thing to mention is that the vario needs to be mounted very carefully. with such a high precision hardware you want to avoid having the radio speaker with it's magnetic influences right next to the sensor box for example. there were some initial complains about the vario not working right, but from what I have heard most of that was due to bad installation. the same would also apply for the ClearNav vario once they start to actually use these kinds of sensors.

for more information you should probably contact Butterfly directly

on thing to mention is that the vario needs to be mounted very carefully. w
ith such a high precision hardware you want to avoid having the radio speak
er with it's magnetic influences right next to the sensor box for example.
there were some initial complains about the vario not working right, but fr
om what I have heard most of that was due to bad installation. the same wou
ld also apply for the ClearNav vario once they start to actually use these
kinds of sensors.

I say: time for avionics compartments (re-use the motor-closures for this if there's nothing in?).
One could mount sensors, RF equipment (radio, transponder) in here properly and have proper access.