flight training - 100nm night flight requirement

it's not my rule... you can log it any way you want...


You said (as an absolute) that a cross country isn't finished until one returns
home. Sounds like a rule to me.


but for the purposes of satisfying cross country requirements to meet FAR
requirements for any rating... look up FAQ Part 61 and you will find an
example, where the long distance cross country for commercial rating
required 3 landings and 3 airports, So... a long 300nm flight with one fuel
stop and to wait for weather from Point A to Point B and to Point C this did
not meet the requirement.. as there were only two landings at B and C..
after conducting business for two days.. the pilot returns to Point C from
Point A. Non-stop This completed the cross country and met the requirements
of 3 airports and 3 landings at Point B, Point C, overnight and then Point A
on his return..


So THIS PARTICULAR cross country wasn't declared to be finished until the
return home, SO THAT it could be counted for a SPECIFIC requirement. (and I
presume you made a typo - the pilot returned FROM point C TO point A). The
pilot could have logged this as two cross countries but then not been able to
use it to satisfy the requirement above. He could have, instead of going home
(to point A), continued on (to point D) and that would have satisfied the
requirement even before returning home. He could have even done a touch and go
at point E just prior to B and been able to use it as a complete cross country
to satisfy the requirement.

Returning home was never the issue.

Jose




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do you butter your toast on the front? or on the back...

and do you cut you sandwich on the horizontal.. or the vertical.?

the "original" question was.. for an out in return flight... to count the
100nm..
was it one cross country or two

I responded that "the" cross country in question was not complete until he
returned home.

Now... you can take that any way you want... or did your newsgroup program
delete the original message..
BT

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

it's not my rule... you can log it any way you want...


You said (as an absolute) that a cross country isn't finished until one
returns
home. Sounds like a rule to me.


but for the purposes of satisfying cross country requirements to meet FAR
requirements for any rating... look up FAQ Part 61 and you will find an
example, where the long distance cross country for commercial rating
required 3 landings and 3 airports, So... a long 300nm flight with one
fuel
stop and to wait for weather from Point A to Point B and to Point C this
did
not meet the requirement.. as there were only two landings at B and C..
after conducting business for two days.. the pilot returns to Point C from
Point A. Non-stop This completed the cross country and met the
requirements
of 3 airports and 3 landings at Point B, Point C, overnight and then Point
A
on his return..


So THIS PARTICULAR cross country wasn't declared to be finished until the
return home, SO THAT it could be counted for a SPECIFIC requirement. (and
I
presume you made a typo - the pilot returned FROM point C TO point A).
The
pilot could have logged this as two cross countries but then not been able
to
use it to satisfy the requirement above. He could have, instead of going
home
(to point A), continued on (to point D) and that would have satisfied the
requirement even before returning home. He could have even done a touch
and go
at point E just prior to B and been able to use it as a complete cross
country
to satisfy the requirement.

Returning home was never the issue.

Jose




--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

the "original" question was.. for an out in return flight... to count the
100nm.. was it one cross country or two

I responded that "the" cross country in question was not complete until he
returned home.

[/.../] do you butter your toast on the front? or on the back...


LOL. Ok, I misread the context.

But here's another one for you all. To satisfy the long distance cross country
for commercial rating, which requires 3 landings and 3 airports, specifically
(61.129 (a) (4) (i) "with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which
is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original
departure point."

Given that
1) a flight must consist of at least one "leg" (reasonable definition of "leg")
2) a leg wiich does not of itself satisfy the distance requirement for a
loggable cross country flight (for purposes of some ratings) can still be PART
OF a flight which, taken as a whole, does satisfy the requirement (and even if
it would not without the leg, such as a flight from A to B (40 nm) plus a 20 nm
leg to C (total straight line distance 51nm))
3) a flight that begins and ends at the same airport (such as a sightseeing
flight, or a loop around the pattern) is still a flight.

Could I count as satisfying 61.129 (a) (4) (i) a flight consisting of:

1: a leg from A to B of 200 nm, followed by
2: a leg from B to C of 200 nm (total straight line distance 340 nm) followed
by
3: a loop around the pattern (a leg from C to C) and another landing.

I've landed at three points, I've landed at a point (C) more than 250 nm from
the starting point (A), and I've landed at three airports (A, B, and C).

The ride would not satisfy (61.129 (a) (4) (i) without the loop around the
pattern at C because it would lack 3 landings. But a loop around the pattern
doesn't really add much to the experience.

Jose
(for the record, I butter my toast on the front, and don't cut my sandwich at
all.

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
I've landed at three points, I've landed at a point (C) more than 250 nm
from
the starting point (A), and I've landed at three airports (A, B, and C).

First of all, a leg is from one airport to another. Local flight in the
pattern does not count as a leg.

Secondly, how you get that you've landed at three airports? You took off
from A, but never landed there.

It's true that there are some unusual examples of cross-country flights to
be had from the FARs, but the example you came up with isn't one. It's
pretty clearly not a qualifying flight for the regulation you're talking
about.

Pete

Secondly, how you get that you've landed at three airports? You took off
from A, but never landed there.


Oops. Ok, so you loop around the pattern at A, not at C.


First of all, a leg is from one airport to another. Local flight in the
pattern does not count as a leg.


Sounds reasonable, but suppose instead of going around the pattern, you go
around Manhattan and come back and land. Leg?

Jose





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"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
[...]
Sounds reasonable, but suppose instead of going around the pattern, you go
around Manhattan and come back and land. Leg?

Actually, I'll take back what I said. Your only problem was the lack of a
third landing, IMHO.

However, what point would there be in landing once at your point of origin,
and terminating the flight at airport C? Someone has to get the plane back
at some point.

I believe that, the way the regulation is written, you could log a flight
such as the one you suggested (the second time, after correcting your
"landing at three points" error) to meet the requirements of
61.129(a)(4)(i). Assuming of course you meet the other requirements as well
(250 NM straightline distance, 300 NM total distance). I don't see why
anyone would bother, but they could if they wanted to.

Pete

However, what point would there be in landing once at your point of origin,
and terminating the flight at airport C? Someone has to get the plane back
at some point.

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

However, what point would there be in landing once at your point of origin,
and terminating the flight at airport C? Someone has to get the plane back
at some point.


(oops)

How about letting another pilot do the same thing on the return, while you
visit your cousin?

Actually, there are a lot of FAR flights for which "what's the point" is not
unwarranted.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Teacherjh wrote:

Could I count as satisfying 61.129 (a) (4) (i) a flight consisting of:

1: a leg from A to B of 200 nm, followed by
2: a leg from B to C of 200 nm (total straight line distance 340 nm) followed
by
3: a loop around the pattern (a leg from C to C) and another landing.

I've landed at three points, ...

No, you've landed at two points. You've landed at one of them twice.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
[...]
How about letting another pilot do the same thing on the return, while you
visit your cousin?

The other pilot flies the plane back during your visit of your cousin? How
do you get home? Why is that preferable to just flying your own
cross-country alone? And how does that other pilot get back to HIS home
base (he didn't come with you, since your cross-country needs to be made
solo).

Actually, there are a lot of FAR flights for which "what's the point" is
not
unwarranted.

Never said there weren't. I'm just saying that while yes the flight would
be allowed, and I think it's obvious the FAA doesn't care if you actually
return to your original point of departure since the total length is only
slightly longer than the stipulated 250 NM leg distance, I can't imagine
there's a heck of a lot of pilots just itching to take advantage of that
"loophole".

Pete