LiFePo Refit Part 23 AC

SLA needs replacement and aircraft is part 23 utility. A LiFePo in the same foot print would be great, I definitely see folks using them and no less than three online stores selling them.

So I started looking at AC 20-184 which seems to be the FAA equivalent of trial by ordeal. Okay, I get it. They aren't quite as proven as SLA and a few have self immolated.

I've found at least a couple of EASA approvals that are sailplane specific but nothing that satisfies the lengthy list of hurdles the FSDO would likely accept.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I overthinking this?

Shaun Wheeler wrote on 2/26/2020 6:55 AM:
SLA needs replacement and aircraft is part 23 utility. A LiFePo in the same foot print would be great, I definitely see folks using them and no less than three online stores selling them.

So I started looking at AC 20-184 which seems to be the FAA equivalent of trial by ordeal. Okay, I get it. They aren't quite as proven as SLA and a few have self immolated.

I've found at least a couple of EASA approvals that are sailplane specific but nothing that satisfies the lengthy list of hurdles the FSDO would likely accept.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I overthinking this?

What is the aircraft that needs the battery? None of the gliders I've had
specified the chemistry of the instrument battery, and those were all easily
removable, suggesting they are "portable" units and not part of the aircraft.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

L33 solo.

On Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 1:13:46 PM UTC-8, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
L33 solo.

This may be of interest:
http://jdasolutions.aero/blog/faas-p...val-standards/

https://www.aviationpros.com/engines...es-in-aircraft

This is a TSO'd 12V battery:
https://earthxbatteries.com/product-...ified-aircraft

To get approved it looks like any lithium ion battery will need a hardened case with venting to the outside of the A/C.

Tom

On Thursday, February 27, 2020 at 12:43:21 AM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 1:13:46 PM UTC-8, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
L33 solo.

This may be of interest:
http://jdasolutions.aero/blog/faas-p...val-standards/

https://www.aviationpros.com/engines...es-in-aircraft

This is a TSO'd 12V battery:
https://earthxbatteries.com/product-...ified-aircraft

To get approved it looks like any lithium ion battery will need a hardened case with venting to the outside of the A/C.

Tom

"at an incredible introductory price of $699"

This is for a starter type/size battery (it says "840 Peak cranking amp").

Curiously that web page does not say what the chemistry is, other than "lithium", but the PDF brochure says "Custom made prismatic LiFePo4 cells".

I wonder: the (large, installed) lithium batteries that caught fire on some airliners, what chemistry were they?

At 17:17 27 February 2020, wrote:
On Thursday, February 27, 2020 at 12:43:21 AM UTC-5, 2G
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 1:13:46 PM UTC-8,
Shaun Wheeler wrote:
L33 solo.

This may be of interest:

http://jdasolutions.aero/blog/faas-p...m-ion-battery-
approval-standards/


https://www.aviationpros.com/engines...ents/aircraft-
airframe-accessories/batteries/article/12256058/lithiumion-
batteries-in-aircraft

This is a TSO'd 12V battery:
https://earthxbatteries.com/product-...ified-aircraft

To get approved it looks like any lithium ion battery will need a
hardened case with venting to the outside of the A/C.

Tom

"at an incredible introductory price of $699"

This is for a starter type/size battery (it says "840 Peak cranking
amp").

Curiously that web page does not say what the chemistry is,
other than
"lithium", but the PDF brochure says "Custom made prismatic
LiFePo4 cells".

I wonder: the (large, installed) lithium batteries that caught fire
on some
airliners, what chemistry were they?

The DreamLiner batteries were LiPo (Lithium Polymer) I think. I
understand they are now in an externally vented metal box? Any
Boeing pilots like to confirm?

Shaun Wheeler wrote on 2/26/2020 1:13 PM:
L33 solo.

Does the handbook specify the type of battery required for the instruments, or
prohibit LiFe batteries? If not, and it's easily removable, I think you can
reasonably claim it's a portable device and use one of your choosing in the
glider; after all, you likely have Lithium batteries in it already - your cell
phone, your inReach/Spot, your logger, and a handheld radio.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

While not necessarily applicable to your situation, FYI, DG prohibits the use of any Lithium-Ion (even LiFePO4) in the tail compartment of its gliders, which surprised me, and foiled my plans. I suspect they have their reasons.

I don't know if that applies to an LS or not.

Best to check with them on what is allowed in your situation.

On Friday, March 6, 2020 at 5:47:58 PM UTC-7, cdeerinck wrote:
While not necessarily applicable to your situation, FYI, DG prohibits the use of any Lithium-Ion (even LiFePO4) in the tail compartment of its gliders, which surprised me, and foiled my plans. I suspect they have their reasons.

I don't know if that applies to an LS or not.

Best to check with them on what is allowed in your situation.

I wonder if that has as much to do with the weight (tail ballast) as much as it does with the fire hazard.

My LAK-17a had an SLA tail battery and it was needed as ballast. When I
got a LiFePO4 battery, I put it behind the seat and put a block of lead,
which matched the removed battery weight, in the tail.Â* I suppose I
could have simply left the dead battery there and saved some work but I
didn't want to risk it leaking.

On 3/6/2020 5:47 PM, cdeerinck wrote:
While not necessarily applicable to your situation, FYI, DG prohibits the use of any Lithium-Ion (even LiFePO4) in the tail compartment of its gliders, which surprised me, and foiled my plans. I suspect they have their reasons.

I don't know if that applies to an LS or not.

Best to check with them on what is allowed in your situation.

--
Dan, 5J