Comfortable 4 seaters?

On 2005-01-13, Paul Tomblin wrote:
More than the 6 seats, what I like best about the Lance is that it's
roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four seaters

The Comanche is between the Archer and the Lance/Six.

Do you really have to remove seats to insure it as a 4-seater? Wouldn't
it be more a matter of not flying it with more than 4 people? There are
plenty of other requirements on my insurance that don't have any physical
barrier to prevent me from violating. For example, if I'm not covered
if I rent my plane, but I could still have a Hobbs meter...

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

Mike Rapoport wrote:
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Our flying club's insurance company is reluctantly allowing us to insure
our Lance, but they have said that they don't like 6 seaters in clubs. A
year ago they told us that anybody who flew the Lance had to put at least
3 hours in the previous 90 days or do a "proficiency check" with a club
instructor every time they flew it, then they told us that's not enough,
and you have to do 15 hours a year in it and ground training and they need
a list of all the pilots and you could only have 8 pilots on the list.
We're wondering what they're going to do next year. So we're thinking
about what happens when we can't keep it any more.

More than the 6 seats, what I like best about the Lance is that it's
roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four seaters
out there that are as wide as a Lance that don't cost too much?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The only problem is that if we found the Holy Grail, we'd have to support
it
and explain to the lusers which way to tip it so that they don't get the
elixer of life down the front of their tasteless shirts. -- Wayne Pascoe


I wonder what their logic is. Why don't you offer to put crash dummies in
two of the seats? I could understand if they wanted a certain number of
hours to fly retractable, multi, pressurized airplanes or others with
funcional differences but I don't understand why they have an issue with the
number of seats. It seems that they could just add 50% to the liability
premium (above a four seater) and be done with it.

Yes, it does seem odd. I did read once that people in the back row or
two tend to sue much more frequently than the pilot or the pax in the
right front seat. But even then, an increase of 100% should cover going
from two folks in back to four.


Matt

In a previous article, Ben Jackson said:
Do you really have to remove seats to insure it as a 4-seater? Wouldn't
it be more a matter of not flying it with more than 4 people? There are
plenty of other requirements on my insurance that don't have any physical
barrier to prevent me from violating. For example, if I'm not covered
if I rent my plane, but I could still have a Hobbs meter...

It's a lot easier to tell a single owner "if you do this, your insurance
will be invalid" than to tell 50 people "if you do this, the CLUB will be
out the cost of the airplane". A lot of people don't understand that if
the club suffers, they all suffer.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I just woke up, I'm 40 miles from my car and I can't remember where
I left my trousers. I think I'm going to be a little late.
-- Someone's employee, rec.humor.funny

we had a Bonanza here at one time on the rental line.. I'm not sure of the
paper work involved.. but the FBO did remove two seats and certified same to
the insurance company to keep the insurance down.

BT

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
Our flying club's insurance company is reluctantly allowing us to insure
our Lance, but they have said that they don't like 6 seaters in clubs. A
year ago they told us that anybody who flew the Lance had to put at least
3 hours in the previous 90 days or do a "proficiency check" with a club
instructor every time they flew it, then they told us that's not enough,
and you have to do 15 hours a year in it and ground training and they
need
a list of all the pilots and you could only have 8 pilots on the list.
We're wondering what they're going to do next year. So we're thinking
about what happens when we can't keep it any more.

More than the 6 seats, what I like best about the Lance is that it's
roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four
seaters
out there that are as wide as a Lance that don't cost too much?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The only problem is that if we found the Holy Grail, we'd have to support
it
and explain to the lusers which way to tip it so that they don't get the
elixer of life down the front of their tasteless shirts. -- Wayne Pascoe

I wonder what their logic is. Why don't you offer to put crash dummies in
two of the seats? I could understand if they wanted a certain number of
hours to fly retractable, multi, pressurized airplanes or others with
funcional differences but I don't understand why they have an issue with
the number of seats. It seems that they could just add 50% to the
liability premium (above a four seater) and be done with it.

Mike
MU-2

Paul Tomblin wrote:
: More than the 6 seats, what I like best about the Lance is that it's
: roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four seaters
: out there that are as wide as a Lance that don't cost too much?

Commander 114/115? It's huge and cushy inside.
--
Aaron C.

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:


I wonder what their logic is.

There is no logic. Rationality departed the insurance industry years ago.

Commander 114/115? It's huge and cushy inside.

Boy, that's for sure. I met a guy at OSH a couple of years ago with a 114
who gave me a "tour", and the cabin was just gigantic. Very cool plane.

How about a Navion? They're certainly voluminous...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" said:
Commander 114/115? It's huge and cushy inside.

Boy, that's for sure. I met a guy at OSH a couple of years ago with a 114
who gave me a "tour", and the cabin was just gigantic. Very cool plane.

How about a Navion? They're certainly voluminous...

According to Plane and Pilot
(http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/cont...ecs/index.html) both of these
planes have a 47" wide cabin. The Lance is 49" and the Cardinal is 48"
and the Trinidad is 50".


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
My group's mission statement - 'You want *what* ? By *WHEN* ?'
-- Simon Burr

"Aaron Coolidge" wrote in message
...
Paul Tomblin wrote:
: More than the 6 seats, what I like best about the Lance is that it's
: roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four
seaters
: out there that are as wide as a Lance that don't cost too much?

Commander 114/115? It's huge and cushy inside.
--
Aaron C.

Aaron gets the prize. The Commander is the closest thing to what you are
asking for.

The Socata's aren't bad, but the low end models are not all that great, and
the more powerful planes are definitely a risky buy.

Paul Tomblin wrote:
: According to Plane and Pilot
: (http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/cont...ecs/index.html) both of these
: planes have a 47" wide cabin. The Lance is 49" and the Cardinal is 48"
: and the Trinidad is 50".

Don't let this decide you. The 114/115 feel HUGE inside. If you are serious,
you should certainly sit in one.
Some of those specs are not quite right: It's got 260HP, not 200HP (the 112
has 200 HP). It really goes about 150K tas. The trailing link main gears
make bad landings impossible.
--
Aaron C.