If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Cessna Cardinal 177 RG II v. Piper Arrow III (70s) v. Piper Arrow III (brand new)
So I've decided to buy a plane (in July of 2007), and I've come to a
dilemma. I learned to fly on a Piper Arrow and very much like that plane, though I haven't flown one in over a year, what I have been flying is a Cessna Cardinal 177 RGII, very nice plane, great handling and a pleasure to fly as well, I live in Hawai'i and shipping plays a big part in inflating the value of planes here... Any plane I buy I will be putting an AVIDYNE avionics twin LCD system into so I don't care about the stock avionics packaged, hence my dilemma is as follows... I can either buy my flight clubs 177 for 50K (without avionics and a high time engine (for 20K more the clubs mechanic will put a brand new engine and prop on). I can buy a Piper Arrow on the mainland and have it shipped to Hawai'i for about 10K (from Cali), and refit that with the AVIDYNE system. or... I can buy a brand new Piper Arrow for a whopping 427,000 (with the AVIDYINE and other options I can't get on the older planes stock). And have peace of mind in a brand new plane that will last a long time without incurring added maintenance expenses. Whichever one I buy I will be doing a "lease-back" to the club to allow other guys to fly it, with a small profit for me (mainly to pay for gas and maintenance on the plane when I fly it) Any advice is appreciated. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Cessna Cardinal 177 RG II v. Piper Arrow III (70s) v. Piper ArrowIII (brand new)
or...
I can buy a brand new Piper Arrow for a whopping 427,000 (with the AVIDYINE and other options I can't get on the older planes stock). IF a half million dollar investment is a reasonable possibility, take a look at what you can get, used, for that price. Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Cessna Cardinal 177 RG II v. Piper Arrow III (70s) v. Piper Arrow III (brand new)
Jose wrote: or... I can buy a brand new Piper Arrow for a whopping 427,000 (with the AVIDYINE and other options I can't get on the older planes stock). IF a half million dollar investment is a reasonable possibility, take a look at what you can get, used, for that price. Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. I could get a lot, like a Piper 6XT or Saratoga, but the operating costs and insurance costs blow those out of the picture, Hawai'i is a unique flying environment, most flights are island hoppers, 30 minutes to an hour at most, so the gas a Saratoga would burn on the ground would make it very un-economical to operate here. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Cessna Cardinal 177 RG II v. Piper Arrow III (70s) v. Piper ArrowIII (brand new)
I could get a lot, like a Piper 6XT or Saratoga, but the operating
costs and insurance costs blow those out of the picture, So get a 300,000 plane and save 200,000 for operating costs. Hawai'i is a unique flying environment, most flights are island hoppers, 30 minutes to an hour at most, so the gas a Saratoga would burn on the ground would make it very un-economical to operate here. I'll help keep it flying for you. Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Cessna Cardinal 177 RG II v. Piper Arrow III (70s) v. Piper Arrow III (brand new)
Jose wrote: I could get a lot, like a Piper 6XT or Saratoga, but the operating costs and insurance costs blow those out of the picture, So get a 300,000 plane and save 200,000 for operating costs. Hawai'i is a unique flying environment, most flights are island hoppers, 30 minutes to an hour at most, so the gas a Saratoga would burn on the ground would make it very un-economical to operate here. I'll help keep it flying for you. Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. That would be the dream... but I can't take out a loan for operating costs, I really wish I had 500,000 in the bank though. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Cessna Cardinal 177 RG II v. Piper Arrow III (70s) v. Piper ArrowIII (brand new)
So get a 300,000 plane and save 200,000 for operating costs.
That would be the dream... but I can't take out a loan for operating costs, I really wish I had 500,000 in the bank though. It's a nice dream. I like it too. And in Hawaii to boot. If you couldn't do the 200,000 in operating costs on a 300,000 plane (how many years would that take you to use up?), then how could you convince a bank to lend you half a mil for a new Arrow? I'd like to talk to your banker, I have some ideas too. Any plane I buy I will be putting an AVIDYNE avionics twin LCD system into Why that particular one? For Hawaii flying, it seems all you need is the wide screen HRPD. The transition between Cessna and Piper is no big deal (as you know). I've flown the Arrow and the Cutlass (though not the Cardinal). I wouldn't pick based on what you most recently flew. I just wonder why buy if you are going to lease back? (or why lease back if you are going to buy?) Seems you would lose the part of the benefit of owning that you don't get from being part of a club. Consider a partnership. Why is the new Arrow even in the mix? It would be hard for maintanance expenses to reach half a mil for the other airplanes you were considering. As to short island hops, a higher performance plane will take you across the entire chain faster. Where do you intend to go? Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Cessna Cardinal 177 RG II v. Piper Arrow III (70s) v. Piper Arrow III (brand new)
If you couldn't do the 200,000 in operating costs on a 300,000 plane
(how many years would that take you to use up?), then how could you convince a bank to lend you half a mil for a new Arrow? I'd like to talk to your banker, I have some ideas too. I can put $150,000 down. I'm going to use the plane to fly to work and while I'm at work I wouldn't mind having it flown. Also I can't exactly take a club plane and go home with it, then not show up at work for a week when I take a vacation etc. etc. I would be clocking in about 400 hours a year which would make ownership more economical than rental. Any plane I buy I will be putting an AVIDYNE avionics twin LCD system into Why that particular one? For Hawaii flying, it seems all you need is the wide screen HRPD. Personal taste, the entire system retails at about 35,000, which I wouldn't mind given the advantages of having both that I'll go into below. Why is the new Arrow even in the mix? It would be hard for maintanance expenses to reach half a mil for the other airplanes you were considering. My "daily" routine would be Moloka'i to Honolulu (47 NM cross country) don't let that fool you, between Moloka'i and O'ahu is the Kaiwi Channel, the best weather I've ever flown in and the worst, as well as the sneakiest, hence a pristine avionics set up would be nice, it would also get the plane rented more. As to short island hops, a higher performance plane will take you across the entire chain faster. Where do you intend to go? Like I said 47NM usually, while the longest flight (from Lihue to Hilo, which will probably never happen) takes about a 3.0. It's a general consensus amongst pilots here than a personal plane should be a reliable durable single (retract preferable), which leads to an enormous popularity here for the Cessna Cardinal. The consensus is also that any commuter inter island flying (Part 135) can only be done economically in Navajos or Chieftains, any other plane (inclucing Cessna Twins) are uneconomical here, due to our environment.... Salt Water (propellers last half as long here as on the mainland), humid, low spread between temperature and dewpoint, daily moderate turbulence (Airmet Tango was ineffect for 328 days last year), as well as the fact that the plane needs to be "simple", the "simpler" the better as getting parts out here for more complex airplans is known to have taken months (getting an exhaust manifold for the Cardinal took 5 weeks last year after a crack developed). |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Cessna Cardinal 177 RG II v. Piper Arrow III (70s) v. Piper ArrowIII (brand new)
I can put $150,000 down.
That buys a lot of airplane, especially for your missions. If this is your first time buying, I wouldn't go whole hog. Learn on the first one, and then step up if necessary. As for reliability (in the avionics, for example), you are better off in some ways having two systems with 95% reliability than one system with 99% reliability. So, money spent for the "super reliable" may be better spent on a simple backup system. But personal taste counts for something (otherwise we'd all be flying other people's airplanes). I've never owned a plane, but I certainly would not buy the very expensive new plane as my first one. I'd learn (ownership) on a less expensive one, make my mistakes where they don't cost as much, and once I know a lot more than I know now, I'd trade up appropriately (or not - it may turn out that I had already hit the sweet spot). Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Cessna Cardinal 177 RG II v. Piper Arrow III (70s) v. Piper Arrow III (brand new)
Dave S wrote: Having flown the Cardinal RG and the Pa-28R-200, (and liked both).. I would lean towards the cardinal. You have much greater visibility out the Cardinal (and can EASILY lean forward to put your head ahead of the leading edge and visually clear above the wing).. Never tried leaning forward, the positive thing though about the high wing is I can visually confirm gear are locked and down. High wing gives you some rain protection on the ground loading and unloading.. I used to live in Hawaii and remember afternoon showers there regularly on the windward sides of the islands.. Agreed, on Oahu you get a lot of showers that get driven over the mountains and into two VFR arrivals for HNL, one came over so fast one time (and the temperature dropped on me) and a thunderstorm started forming around me, I had to dive the plane between two volcanic craters to 400 feet AGL (one of which tops out at 1208 MSL, the other at about 350 MSL). Large doors that open VERY wide make for easy boarding and loading, and there are two of them. Agreed Cardinal RG strikes me as just a tad faster/sleeker It's slower by 10 knots... but speed wasn't my concern on a primarily sub-cross country flight. The reason the "new Arrow" is in the mix is because I plan on keeping the plane for 40 years at a minimum (thats the plan, might not happen but all signs point to yes) which would mean that a plane with 0 TT will be a lot friendlier to my schedules than a plane thats got 5800 TT (Cardinal RG I'm looking at). |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Anti collision light mod for Piper Arrow 1968 model? | Frode Berg | Owning | 4 | May 20th 04 05:16 AM |
$15,000 Cash for a Cessna 152 Or Piper Tomahawk | MRQB | Aviation Marketplace | 17 | February 15th 04 12:05 PM |
$15,000 Cash for a Cessna 152 Or Piper Tomahawk | MRQB | Owning | 18 | February 15th 04 12:05 PM |
$15,000 Cash for a Cessna 152 Or Piper Tomahawk | MRQB | Piloting | 17 | February 15th 04 12:05 PM |
Piper Archer III or Cessna 172SP | Dale Harwell | Owning | 10 | July 15th 03 04:01 AM |