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#51
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#52
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I knew it was too good to last. From feast to famine, he's back to his old
routine again. That's quite ok, lemming. If I work for five minutes, I will have achieved more in those five minutes than you have in your lifetime. Hours in the log mean nothing outside of that piece of garbage wrapping. MY greatest achievement was realizing that soaring is just a money suck, and getting out of it. Next came the axle for the motorized wheelchair that I made a week ago at no cost. Your soaring achievements have done _what_ to help someone else that has a _real_ need? Pipe it up your rear, kraut. Jim Vincent CFIG N483SZ illspam |
#53
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"Liam Finley" wrote in message om... Pat Russell wrote in message . .. Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread. Soaring has declined for these reasons: 1. Money 2. Accessibility 3. Competition from other activities 4. Elitism Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the fourth, the easiest one to address? -Pat I think the elitism problem is largely an urban myth. It's all too easy for unsuccesful pilots to blame elitism rather than take a hard look at their own lack of skill, ability or perserverence. Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights to 1 hour and within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the world needn't feel so bad about their lack of achievement. After reading your post, I'm certain that the fish of the world "think that water is largely an urban myth". Tim Ward |
#54
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Tony Verhulst wrote in message ...
Lennie, you're starting to scare me. A couple of good posts in a row. Yeah. NOw tell me what I'm saying now that I didn't start saying in 1999. What I was seeing then is the same as I'm seeing now, ecomomy down, less disposable income, more expensive gliders, death spiral. The same people talking down any thought of an affordable, although lower performance machine, and they still can't see that the high buck way isn't doing it. For a good illustration of my answer to PR's point #4, see the drivel by liam the lemming. (He'll never get a good word out of me for anything, now or ever. His only good point is that he makes a perfect bad example.) |
#55
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...but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address? [Elitism] Review Wander's "GrowBook", http://acro.harvard.edu/SOARING/books/growbook.htm . Let's make soaring friendlier, less private, less mysterious. |
#56
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#57
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#58
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Sad to hear.
Luckily the approach in our club is quite different. Most of the pilots remember their early flights with Blanik or Pirat and have some romantic approach to those gliders. The attitude towards the lower performing gliders and the pilots who fly them is even somewhat jealous. Like looking at the young boy who's in love for a first time - memories, memories ... :-). Of course later in your life you meet the females, who look better and perform better than the first-one ;-). As you do with gliders. But no-one can never take away your first love and remaining warm feelings towards the subject. There is no point in badmouthing early training gliders. Somehow the youngster has to gain the experience to jump in to the glass cockpit. And you can bet that while sitting in the cocpit of 2-33 or Blanik and watching a beautyful glass glider taking of, he's thinking about "Gee, can I fly that-one? Ever?". It seems helluva long way to go for a youngster and responsible pilot won't make it seem longer or non-achievable. So. The real problem seems to be that there's too few enthusiastic pilots left who lure other people to soaring. One has to realise, that even the records set by Ohlmann mean nothing if there isn't tens of thousands of pilots who seldom fly away from the gliding distance of the airfield and who actually have a clue, what an achievement those records are. The responsibility of every single pilot out there is to take care that youngsters get lured to gliding. Personal example works best. Regards, Kaido Tiigisoon www.purilend.ee Jantar Std 3 "Jim Vincent" wrote in message ... somewhere with a 4th hand Woodstock towed behind an old Jetta and step out on the field dressed in Levi's and a T-shirt there will be a few pilots quietly snickering in the background about my poor performing hardware. Too right! A large percentage of members at my club proclaim anything other than glass as a Piece of Sh** and gladly tell new students this. Never mind having to "dumb down" to fly a 1-26. Sadly, the new students who haven't a clue take on the same attitude. Jim Vincent CFIG N483SZ illspam |
#59
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At 23:24 15 April 2004, Lennie The Lurker wrote:
(Liam Finley) wrote in message news:... Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights to 1 hour and within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the world needn't feel so bad about their lack of achievement. That's quite ok, lemming. If I work for five minutes, I will have achieved more in those five minutes than you have in your lifetime. Hours in the log mean nothing outside of that piece of garbage wrapping. MY greatest achievement was realizing that soaring is just a money suck, and getting out of it. Next came the axle for the motorized wheelchair that I made a week ago at no cost. Your soaring achievements have done _what_ to help someone else that has a _real_ need? Pipe it up your rear, kraut. Oh Lennie, Lennie, Lennie. You nearly had us convinced for a second that you had actually sorted out your severe metal disorder! But, all good things come to those who wait! I knew you would go back to your old ways eventually. your last post - Sorry your last flight wasnt that good. My last flight at a similar cost was in a Discus 2a (Monday) running a convergence line up and down England. It was absolutely awesome. I dont regret spending a single penny on gliding. I think its tragic that you are angry with the gliding scene and, as always, am at an utter loss at why you persist in posting here when you have such a (well documented) hatred for gliding. Elitism - its lonely at the top but the view is good! (I put that here as a joke!!) Owain |
#60
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:40:02 GMT, Pat Russell
wrote: Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread. Soaring has declined for these reasons: 1. Money 2. Accessibility 3. Competition from other activities 4. Elitism Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the fourth, the easiest one to address? Sadly, these days (in the UK anyway) it seems that accusations of elitism often get applied to anything that can't be mastered instantly and doesn't involve chasing a ball. Gliding is obviously elitist just because becoming a soaring pilot takes time and involves learning a number of new skills. And, please lets not argue about the (perceived) cost: the amount that ordinary folks are prepared to spend on, e.g., gokarting for their kids or golf can easily exceed the cost of soaring. Again, that assumes UK club fees and glider prices, so that comparison may not work elsewhere. I know a guy whose son was close to top rank in karting - they spent £20K a year running that kart and competing - and another family who lashed out £1200 on a used kart for their kid. In the UK you could get solo for less than the cost of that used kart. Buying my ASW-20 and flying it for a year will cost less than £20K. Amortising that cost over 10 years will reduce the yearly outlay to the equivalent of flying a club glider, so over time gliding is vastly cheaper than top-level karting and I bet that still holds if I'd bought new kit such as an ASW-28. -- martin@ : Martin Gregorie gregorie : Harlow, UK demon : co : Zappa fan & glider pilot uk : |
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