FAA Control tower Abandoned

You didn't quote the whole article. It can be found at:
http://www.turnto10.com/news/9227658/detail.html and towards the bottom
it says:


A Federal Aviation Administration spokesman said based on control tower
recordings, Southwest's version of events is "not true."

"Southwest made a decision to return to Baltimore after the pilot
attempted to make a landing ... [and] missed his approach," spokesman
Jim Peters said. "Based on conversations, it was not necessary for the
tower to be open when that plane landed."

Peters said it is possible for flights to land without someone being
present in the control tower.


So was a dispatcher confused, or did the pilot outright lie, or did the
passengers and/or reporter misunderstand what was going on? Or is the
FAA covering its butt?


Blowinginthewind wrote:
Looks like this is becoming a common occurrence lately.

Oh I forgot, the FAA treats their controller and technical
workforce like ****. Maybe that's it.

FAA Control tower Abandoned

Southwest Planes Turn Around Minutes From Green
Southwest Says Planes Could Not Land Without Air Traffic Control

UPDATED: 8:34 pm EDT May 16, 2006
WARWICK, R.I. -- Two Southwest Airlines flights left
Baltimore Monday night bound for Rhode Island, but it was
just the beginning of a back-and-forth odyssey for dozens of
passengers.

NBC 10's Audrey Laganas reported that the planes turned
around in flight just before midnight. The passengers said
the pilots told them they were turning back because there
was no one in the control tower at T.F. Green Airport.

The stranded passengers were so mad, they called NBC 10.

NBC 10 was waiting when they landed Tuesday morning.

"It was so sad, and we were treated like cattle," said
Michelle Harvey, who was flying home from Baltimore with her
mother.

"And then when we were flying, the pilot got on. He sounded
greatly distressed. He said, 'There's no one at the tower in
Providence. We have to go back.' We were about 10 minutes
out. Ten or 15 minutes out," Harvey said.

The passengers had to camp out overnight at the airport in
Baltimore.

wrote in message
oups.com...

You didn't quote the whole article. It can be found at:
http://www.turnto10.com/news/9227658/detail.html and towards the bottom
it says:


A Federal Aviation Administration spokesman said based on control tower
recordings, Southwest's version of events is "not true."

"Southwest made a decision to return to Baltimore after the pilot
attempted to make a landing ... [and] missed his approach," spokesman
Jim Peters said. "Based on conversations, it was not necessary for the
tower to be open when that plane landed."

Peters said it is possible for flights to land without someone being
present in the control tower.


So was a dispatcher confused, or did the pilot outright lie, or did the
passengers and/or reporter misunderstand what was going on? Or is the
FAA covering its butt?


There does not appear to be any reason for the FAA to cover it's butt in
this case.

Northwest has two flights that normally arrive at Green Bay about 11PM.
Sometimes they run a bit late and don't arrive until after the tower and
TRACON close at 11:30. On those occasions Minneapolis ARTCC clears them for
the approach of their choice and they land on the then uncontrolled field.
Apparently Southwest would rather return to the departure point when they
arrive after the tower has closed. They're free to do that, but it's wrong
to blame their choice on the FAA.

The article conveniently neglects to mention that they departed 31
minutes late.

Also, I've listened to recordings of the ATC dialogue. There were
ample broadcasts by the tower and Center about the tower closing at
23:59 and regressing to Class E airspace. They mentioned a couple
times that they'd stay open for the Southwest flight's approach, but
they'd have to close if he went missed.

The confusing thing is that the Southwest flight is calling itself
2020, which is scheduled between MCO and PVD. SWA946 is the flight
between BWI and PVD. I don't know what the story is there. But the
dialogue between the tower and the flight goes like this:

00:02:07 SWA2020: Tower, Southwest, uh, 2020 is missed approach.
00:02:16 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020 is on the go, climb and maintain 2000.
00:02:20 SWA2020: 2000, Southwest 2020.

00:02:35 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020, say alternate.
00:02:37 SWA2020: Ah, we're gonna have to go to Baltimore.
00:02:39 PVD TWR: Understand, Baltimore.
00:02:40 SWA2020: That's affirmative.

00:02:53 SWA2020: Do you want us to switch to Center, sir?

00:03:03 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020, turn left heading 240, radar vectors
for Baltimore, climb and maintain two thousand five hundred.
00:03:12 SWA2020: Two thousand five hundred on the altitude, two four
zero heading, Southwest 2020.
00:03:16 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020, contact Boston Center on 124.85.
00:03:24 SWA2020: 124.85, thank you sir.

00:04:41 SWA2020: Tower, Southwest 2020.
00:04:43 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020, Providence Tower.
00:04:45 SWA2020: Yeah, you guys gonna close it up and go home?
00:04:47 PVD TWR: Affirmative, Southwest 2020.
00:04:48 SWA2020: Okay. Yeah, our misseds are set up to where we need
you guys to shoot 'em so, all right, thank you, good night.
00:04:53 PVD TWR: Roger.

00:05:25 PVD TWR: Attention all aircraft, Providence Tower is now
closed, class Charlie services are no longer available. Class Echo
airspace will be in effect until May 16, 2006 at 05:44 local. Good
night.

So yeah, the tower stayed open late, and the pilot believed he needed
the tower open to shoot the approach again, and diverted to his planned
alternate.

Brien K. Meehan wrote:
The confusing thing is that the Southwest flight is calling itself
2020, which is scheduled between MCO and PVD.

Thanks for finding it. There are two flights mentioned in the article.
SWA 2020 is the other one, they did the missed approach at 12:02am
according to FlightAware. So the tower didn't stay open too late.

SWA946 is the flight
between BWI and PVD.

That's the one I mentioned a few posts back. They left not long before
midnight and turned around before even getting to New York. Probably
got word from 2020 that the conditions were bad so they turned around.

"Brien K. Meehan" wrote in message
oups.com...

The article conveniently neglects to mention that they departed 31
minutes late.

Also, I've listened to recordings of the ATC dialogue. There were
ample broadcasts by the tower and Center about the tower closing at
23:59 and regressing to Class E airspace. They mentioned a couple
times that they'd stay open for the Southwest flight's approach, but
they'd have to close if he went missed.

The confusing thing is that the Southwest flight is calling itself
2020, which is scheduled between MCO and PVD. SWA946 is the flight
between BWI and PVD. I don't know what the story is there. But the
dialogue between the tower and the flight goes like this:

00:02:07 SWA2020: Tower, Southwest, uh, 2020 is missed approach.
00:02:16 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020 is on the go, climb and maintain 2000.
00:02:20 SWA2020: 2000, Southwest 2020.

00:02:35 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020, say alternate.
00:02:37 SWA2020: Ah, we're gonna have to go to Baltimore.
00:02:39 PVD TWR: Understand, Baltimore.
00:02:40 SWA2020: That's affirmative.

00:02:53 SWA2020: Do you want us to switch to Center, sir?

00:03:03 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020, turn left heading 240, radar vectors
for Baltimore, climb and maintain two thousand five hundred.
00:03:12 SWA2020: Two thousand five hundred on the altitude, two four
zero heading, Southwest 2020.
00:03:16 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020, contact Boston Center on 124.85.
00:03:24 SWA2020: 124.85, thank you sir.

00:04:41 SWA2020: Tower, Southwest 2020.
00:04:43 PVD TWR: Southwest 2020, Providence Tower.
00:04:45 SWA2020: Yeah, you guys gonna close it up and go home?
00:04:47 PVD TWR: Affirmative, Southwest 2020.
00:04:48 SWA2020: Okay. Yeah, our misseds are set up to where we need
you guys to shoot 'em so, all right, thank you, good night.
00:04:53 PVD TWR: Roger.

00:05:25 PVD TWR: Attention all aircraft, Providence Tower is now
closed, class Charlie services are no longer available. Class Echo
airspace will be in effect until May 16, 2006 at 05:44 local. Good
night.

So yeah, the tower stayed open late, and the pilot believed he needed
the tower open to shoot the approach again, and diverted to his planned
alternate.


Very interesting. They had to return to BWI because PVD was below minimums,
not because the tower was abandoned or refused to stay open for them. Do
you know what approach they had missed?