Ceconite Wings Question

Hello. I'm considering purchasing a plane that has Ceconite wings.
They were recovered last year professionally, and according to an A&P
I asked to have a quick look, were done well and correctly, and have a
UV protectant. My question is the following: I don't have access to a
hanger. This plane would be exposed to the elements in the Midwest.
How long could I expect to fly this plane before the Ceconite would
need replacement? Is there an average 'lifespan' for this type of wing
covering if exposed to the elements?

Thanks,

Cap

On 13 Oct 2004 06:45:58 -0700, (Captain
Wubba) wrote:

Hello. I'm considering purchasing a plane that has Ceconite wings.
They were recovered last year professionally, and according to an A&P
I asked to have a quick look, were done well and correctly, and have a
UV protectant. My question is the following: I don't have access to a
hanger. This plane would be exposed to the elements in the Midwest.
How long could I expect to fly this plane before the Ceconite would
need replacement? Is there an average 'lifespan' for this type of wing
covering if exposed to the elements?

Thanks,

Cap

The fabric that is used to cover airplanes is all the same. What is
different is how it is "painted." If this was done with Nitrate and
Butyrate dopes with an aluminum coat as the UV protection you should
expect to get about 7 years out of it. If it was completed with the
Stits process, I've seen airplanes outside for 15+ years and they
still are in very good shape.

You may get more than 7 out of the dope as well, but it depends on
alot like how much shade, temps, etc...I'd like to say 10+, but I'm
staying conservative.

HTH.
z

My citabria was covered ten years ago with ceconite. The fabric is
perfect. The white paint is okay, the red has faded. It's now
hangered so I expect to get a lot more life out of it. Most people
I've spoke to prior to buying my plane said twenty years for a well done
fabric job that's taken care of. I've seen nearly new american
champion citabrias with cracked paint. A friend has a piper colt that
was covered with ceconite 25 years ago but always hangered. It's like
new.

You really have to get it checked by an A&P that works on fabric airplanes.

Dave
68 7ECA

Captain Wubba wrote:
Hello. I'm considering purchasing a plane that has Ceconite wings.
They were recovered last year professionally, and according to an A&P
I asked to have a quick look, were done well and correctly, and have a
UV protectant. My question is the following: I don't have access to a
hanger. This plane would be exposed to the elements in the Midwest.
How long could I expect to fly this plane before the Ceconite would
need replacement? Is there an average 'lifespan' for this type of wing
covering if exposed to the elements?

Thanks,

Cap

One theory is to not go more than ten years without recovering.
The theory being that after that much time exposed to the elements, you
would want to strip everything off to thoroughly inspect the airframe
for corrosion.

dave wrote:
My citabria was covered ten years ago with ceconite. The fabric is
perfect. The white paint is okay, the red has faded. It's now
hangered so I expect to get a lot more life out of it. Most people
I've spoke to prior to buying my plane said twenty years for a well done
fabric job that's taken care of. I've seen nearly new american
champion citabrias with cracked paint. A friend has a piper colt that
was covered with ceconite 25 years ago but always hangered. It's like new.

You really have to get it checked by an A&P that works on fabric airplanes.

Dave
68 7ECA

Captain Wubba wrote:

Hello. I'm considering purchasing a plane that has Ceconite wings.
They were recovered last year professionally, and according to an A&P
I asked to have a quick look, were done well and correctly, and have a
UV protectant. My question is the following: I don't have access to a
hanger. This plane would be exposed to the elements in the Midwest.
How long could I expect to fly this plane before the Ceconite would
need replacement? Is there an average 'lifespan' for this type of wing
covering if exposed to the elements?

Thanks,

Cap

"john smith" wrote in message
...
One theory is to not go more than ten years without recovering.
The theory being that after that much time exposed to the elements, you
would want to strip everything off to thoroughly inspect the airframe for
corrosion.


The 10 year replacement theory is a great "perfect world" idea, but most
folks who are not named Buffet, Gates, Kennedy, etc. simply can't afford the
cost. Cover jobs are expensive. Real expensive. As in 4 years of college
tuition expensive, or downpayment on a small house expensive. Since the
sky isn't raining old rag wings, the 15-20 year re-cover cycle appears to be
adequate...

KB

I've heard that too but more like twenty years. If I needed to inspect
every little nook and crany of a fabric covered airplane every ten years
then why not a metal covered one?

john smith wrote:

One theory is to not go more than ten years without recovering.
The theory being that after that much time exposed to the elements, you
would want to strip everything off to thoroughly inspect the airframe
for corrosion.

dave wrote:

My citabria was covered ten years ago with ceconite. The fabric is
perfect. The white paint is okay, the red has faded. It's now
hangered so I expect to get a lot more life out of it. Most people
I've spoke to prior to buying my plane said twenty years for a well
done fabric job that's taken care of. I've seen nearly new american
champion citabrias with cracked paint. A friend has a piper colt
that was covered with ceconite 25 years ago but always hangered. It's
like new.

You really have to get it checked by an A&P that works on fabric
airplanes.

Dave
68 7ECA

Captain Wubba wrote:

Hello. I'm considering purchasing a plane that has Ceconite wings.
They were recovered last year professionally, and according to an A&P
I asked to have a quick look, were done well and correctly, and have a
UV protectant. My question is the following: I don't have access to a
hanger. This plane would be exposed to the elements in the Midwest.
How long could I expect to fly this plane before the Ceconite would
need replacement? Is there an average 'lifespan' for this type of wing
covering if exposed to the elements?

Thanks,

Cap

"Kyle Boatright" wrote
The 10 year replacement theory is a great "perfect world" idea, but most
folks who are not named Buffet, Gates, Kennedy, etc. simply can't afford the
cost. Cover jobs are expensive. Real expensive. As in 4 years of college
tuition expensive, or downpayment on a small house expensive. Since the
sky isn't raining old rag wings, the 15-20 year re-cover cycle appears to be
adequate.

Well, yes - but most old rag wings are hangared. I would have no
problem with a 20 year cycle for a hangared bird, but if it sits
outside for 10 years it probably needs recover.

Michael

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message ...
"john smith" wrote in message
...
One theory is to not go more than ten years without recovering.
The theory being that after that much time exposed to the elements, you
would want to strip everything off to thoroughly inspect the airframe for
corrosion.


The 10 year replacement theory is a great "perfect world" idea, but most
folks who are not named Buffet, Gates, Kennedy, etc. simply can't afford the
cost. Cover jobs are expensive. Real expensive. As in 4 years of college
tuition expensive, or downpayment on a small house expensive. Since the
sky isn't raining old rag wings, the 15-20 year re-cover cycle appears to be
adequate...

KB

There is no life limit on the new fabric material. UV is its only
weakness.
If the dope or paint has been put on properly, it will last as long as
the coatings last.
The coatings can get re-vitalized from time to time to keep them
plyable.
There is no reason why fabric can't last 20,30-40+ years if you don't
let the sun get to the fabric.

Like any airplane, the structure needs to be inspected whether it has
fabric or aluminum for covering.

Dave

("dave" wrote)
I've heard that too but more like twenty years. If I needed to inspect
every little nook and crany of a fabric covered airplane every ten years
then why not a metal covered one?


I was thinking that too - I'm whimsically looking at a 1946 Ercoupe, which is
going up
for auction this Saturday (16th). There's a beaten up Cessna 140 there also.
Pole barn projects that are soon to be someone else's problem ... I mean
project. Both are planes that will need much time and much money thrown their
way before they get in the air again.

What Kyle was saying about costs - What's a guess on the material cost (only)
for redoing a fabric covered airplane? How much of that college tuition level
price tag is material vs. labor?


Montblack

john smith wrote in message .. .
One theory is to not go more than ten years without recovering.
The theory being that after that much time exposed to the elements, you
would want to strip everything off to thoroughly inspect the airframe
for corrosion.

dave wrote:
My citabria was covered ten years ago with ceconite. The fabric is
perfect. The white paint is okay, the red has faded. It's now
hangered so I expect to get a lot more life out of it. Most people
I've spoke to prior to buying my plane said twenty years for a well done
fabric job that's taken care of. I've seen nearly new american
champion citabrias with cracked paint. A friend has a piper colt that
was covered with ceconite 25 years ago but always hangered. It's like new.

You really have to get it checked by an A&P that works on fabric airplanes.

Dave
68 7ECA

I'm far from an expert on this, but I'll add a couple of things I've
heard, plus second what Dave said w.r.t. checking with an A&P that
does fabric work.

Ceconite uses non-tautening Butrate dope (not quite the same stuff
that is
used with cotton). Over time the plasticizer will leach out, resulting
in the
dope getting brittle and starting to crack. This can be remedied by
using a
"dope rejuvenator", if done soon enough. The only thing that damages
the fabric,
(short of hail or fire) is UV light. The silver dope protects it, but
cracks in
the dope can let the UV through.

Most fabric covered aircraft were designed when Cotton was the best
covering
available, and it lasted 10 years, at most. As such, the engineers
assumed the
underlying structure would be examined/repaired at least every 10
years. Some
aircraft now have a lot more inspection holes in the wing fabric than
they
would have had when they left the factory, to try and inspect the
internal
structure. Whether the internal structure is wood or metal is also a
consideration. (Inspecting wood with a flashlight and mirror on a
stick is
a specialized skill that not all A&Ps will have.)

Just what I've been told, rick