Approval document issued for IGC Position Recorder

Dear Friends,

I am pleased to announce that a new approval document for an IGC
Position Recorder has been issued by the Gliding Federation of
Australia for flights under its jurisdiction, after discussion with
the IGC GNSS Flight Recorder Approval Committee (GFAC). The IGC
Position Recorder is a new category of recording device, introduced on
1 October 2009 with the latest update to the Sporting Code for
gliding.

The Australian Approval is dated 15 February 2010 and is for the
flyWithCE Recorder, manufactured by Uro Podlogar s.p., Ulica Lojzeta
Hrovata 9, 4000 Kranj, Slovenia (www.flyWithCE.com).

The Approval Document issued by the Gliding Federation of Australia
can be viewed at:

www.fai.org/gliding/position_recorders

under "The Gliding Federation of Australia"
and "Approval Document: flyWithCE".

------------------

Other National Gliding Authorities might look at the Position Recorder
approval documents that are available on the gliding/
position_recorders web site, and consider whether they wish to issue
their own versions.

The two existing approval documents for IGC Position Recorders a

1. Fédération Française de Vol à Voile approval document (in French
and English) for Flarm-
equipped devices that have outputs in the IGC file format. These
include:

Ediatec ECW100,
LXN Red Box Flarm and Mini Box Flarm,
Swift Avionics MiniOz and OzFlarm,
Swiss Flarm after 1 January 2005,
Triadis Floice.

2. Gliding Federation of Australia approval document for:
miniOZ
OzFlarm

------------------

These National Approval Documents were drawn up together with the IGC
GFA Committee, in accordance with Sporting Code rules that ask for
draft documents to be sent to GFAC so that approval documents can
follow a common format wherever possible (examples are on the gliding/
position_recorders web page), and also so that compliance with the
Sporting Code rules for IGC Position Recorders can be ensured. The
Sporting Code rules for IGC Position Recorders can be viewed
at:www.fai.org/gliding/system/files/SC3_refs_PR.pdf

Finally, as is stated on web page www.fai.org/gliding/GNSS , an IGC
Position Recorder is a stand-alone GPS unit (different from an IGC-
approved flight recorder) which may be used for position (Lat/Long)
evidence for silver and gold flights only, under special rules given
in the Appendix to Chapter 4 of Section 3 of the FAI Sporting Code.

Regards to all and good soaring in 2010,

----

Ian Strachan
Chairman IGC GFA Committee

On Feb 16, 4:53*am, Ian Strachan wrote:
Dear Friends,

I am pleased to announce that a new approval document for an IGC
Position Recorder has been issued by the Gliding Federation of
Australia for flights under its jurisdiction, after discussion with
the IGC GNSS Flight Recorder Approval Committee (GFAC). *The IGC
Position Recorder is a new category of recording device, introduced on
1 October 2009 with the latest update to the Sporting Code for
gliding.

The Australian Approval is dated 15 February 2010 and is for the
flyWithCE Recorder, manufactured by Uro Podlogar s.p., Ulica Lojzeta
Hrovata 9, 4000 Kranj, Slovenia (www.flyWithCE.com).

The Approval Document issued by the Gliding Federation of Australia
can be viewed at:

www.fai.org/gliding/position_recorders

under "The Gliding Federation of Australia"
and "Approval Document: flyWithCE".

------------------

Other National Gliding Authorities might look at the Position Recorder
approval documents that are available on the gliding/
position_recorders web site, and consider whether they wish to issue
their own versions.

The two existing approval documents for IGC Position Recorders a

1. *Fédération Française de Vol à Voile approval document (in French
and English) for Flarm-
equipped devices that have outputs in the IGC file format. *These
include:

* * *Ediatec ECW100,
* * *LXN Red Box Flarm and Mini Box Flarm,
* * *Swift Avionics MiniOz and OzFlarm,
* * *Swiss Flarm after 1 January 2005,
* * *Triadis Floice.

2. *Gliding Federation of Australia approval document for:
* * *miniOZ
* * *OzFlarm

------------------

These National Approval Documents were drawn up together with the IGC
GFA Committee, in accordance with Sporting Code rules that ask for
draft documents to be sent to GFAC so that approval documents can
follow a common format wherever possible (examples are on the gliding/
position_recorders web page), and also so that compliance with the
Sporting Code rules for IGC Position Recorders can be ensured. The
Sporting Code rules for IGC Position Recorders can be viewed
at:www.fai.org/gliding/system/files/SC3_refs_PR.pdf

Finally, as is stated on web pagewww.fai.org/gliding/GNSS, an IGC
Position Recorder is a stand-alone GPS unit (different from an IGC-
approved flight recorder) which may be used for position (Lat/Long)
evidence for silver and gold flights only, under special rules given
in the Appendix to Chapter 4 of Section 3 of the FAI Sporting Code.

Regards to all and good soaring in 2010,

----

Ian Strachan
Chairman IGC GFA Committee


One can only hope that these recorders come to somewhat of a realistic
price. The retail of these units we must use is a rediculous sum to
pay for a piece of equipment so basic. I can only hope some
electronics entrepeneur with the assets comes up with a piece of gear
that will undersale the fat cats, but who am I kidding? Politics will
squash such a rebel.

On Feb 17, 9:02*am, soarpilot wrote:
On Feb 16, 4:53*am, Ian Strachan wrote:





Dear Friends,

I am pleased to announce that a new approval document for an IGC
Position Recorder has been issued by the Gliding Federation of
Australia for flights under its jurisdiction, after discussion with
the IGC GNSS Flight Recorder Approval Committee (GFAC). *The IGC
Position Recorder is a new category of recording device, introduced on
1 October 2009 with the latest update to the Sporting Code for
gliding.

The Australian Approval is dated 15 February 2010 and is for the
flyWithCE Recorder, manufactured by Uro Podlogar s.p., Ulica Lojzeta
Hrovata 9, 4000 Kranj, Slovenia (www.flyWithCE.com).

The Approval Document issued by the Gliding Federation of Australia
can be viewed at:

www.fai.org/gliding/position_recorders

under "The Gliding Federation of Australia"
and "Approval Document: flyWithCE".

------------------

Other National Gliding Authorities might look at the Position Recorder
approval documents that are available on the gliding/
position_recorders web site, and consider whether they wish to issue
their own versions.

The two existing approval documents for IGC Position Recorders a

1. *Fédération Française de Vol à Voile approval document (in French
and English) for Flarm-
equipped devices that have outputs in the IGC file format. *These
include:

* * *Ediatec ECW100,
* * *LXN Red Box Flarm and Mini Box Flarm,
* * *Swift Avionics MiniOz and OzFlarm,
* * *Swiss Flarm after 1 January 2005,
* * *Triadis Floice.

2. *Gliding Federation of Australia approval document for:
* * *miniOZ
* * *OzFlarm

------------------

These National Approval Documents were drawn up together with the IGC
GFA Committee, in accordance with Sporting Code rules that ask for
draft documents to be sent to GFAC so that approval documents can
follow a common format wherever possible (examples are on the gliding/
position_recorders web page), and also so that compliance with the
Sporting Code rules for IGC Position Recorders can be ensured. The
Sporting Code rules for IGC Position Recorders can be viewed
at:www.fai.org/gliding/system/files/SC3_refs_PR.pdf

Finally, as is stated on web pagewww.fai.org/gliding/GNSS, an IGC
Position Recorder is a stand-alone GPS unit (different from an IGC-
approved flight recorder) which may be used for position (Lat/Long)
evidence for silver and gold flights only, under special rules given
in the Appendix to Chapter 4 of Section 3 of the FAI Sporting Code.

Regards to all and good soaring in 2010,

----

Ian Strachan
Chairman IGC GFA Committee


One can only hope that these recorders come to somewhat of a realistic
price. *The retail of these units we must use is a rediculous sum to
pay for a piece of equipment so basic. *I can only hope some
electronics entrepeneur with the assets comes up with a piece of gear
that will undersale the fat cats, but who am I kidding? *Politics will
squash such a rebel.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Since we're currently putting the guidelines together in the US on
this same topic, I'd be interested in your thoughts on a magic
number... what's the "realistic price" that a GPS Position Recorder
should cost?

Erik Mann
SSA FAI Badge&Record Committee

On Feb 17, 6:02*am, soarpilot wrote:
On Feb 16, 4:53*am, Ian Strachan wrote:







Dear Friends,

I am pleased to announce that a new approval document for an IGC
Position Recorder has been issued by the Gliding Federation of
Australia for flights under its jurisdiction, after discussion with
the IGC GNSS Flight Recorder Approval Committee (GFAC). *The IGC
Position Recorder is a new category of recording device, introduced on
1 October 2009 with the latest update to the Sporting Code for
gliding.

The Australian Approval is dated 15 February 2010 and is for the
flyWithCE Recorder, manufactured by Uro Podlogar s.p., Ulica Lojzeta
Hrovata 9, 4000 Kranj, Slovenia (www.flyWithCE.com).

The Approval Document issued by the Gliding Federation of Australia
can be viewed at:

www.fai.org/gliding/position_recorders

under "The Gliding Federation of Australia"
and "Approval Document: flyWithCE".

------------------

Other National Gliding Authorities might look at the Position Recorder
approval documents that are available on the gliding/
position_recorders web site, and consider whether they wish to issue
their own versions.

The two existing approval documents for IGC Position Recorders a

1. *Fédération Française de Vol à Voile approval document (in French
and English) for Flarm-
equipped devices that have outputs in the IGC file format. *These
include:

* * *Ediatec ECW100,
* * *LXN Red Box Flarm and Mini Box Flarm,
* * *Swift Avionics MiniOz and OzFlarm,
* * *Swiss Flarm after 1 January 2005,
* * *Triadis Floice.

2. *Gliding Federation of Australia approval document for:
* * *miniOZ
* * *OzFlarm

------------------

These National Approval Documents were drawn up together with the IGC
GFA Committee, in accordance with Sporting Code rules that ask for
draft documents to be sent to GFAC so that approval documents can
follow a common format wherever possible (examples are on the gliding/
position_recorders web page), and also so that compliance with the
Sporting Code rules for IGC Position Recorders can be ensured. The
Sporting Code rules for IGC Position Recorders can be viewed
at:www.fai.org/gliding/system/files/SC3_refs_PR.pdf

Finally, as is stated on web pagewww.fai.org/gliding/GNSS, an IGC
Position Recorder is a stand-alone GPS unit (different from an IGC-
approved flight recorder) which may be used for position (Lat/Long)
evidence for silver and gold flights only, under special rules given
in the Appendix to Chapter 4 of Section 3 of the FAI Sporting Code.

Regards to all and good soaring in 2010,

----

Ian Strachan
Chairman IGC GFA Committee


One can only hope that these recorders come to somewhat of a realistic
price. *The retail of these units we must use is a rediculous sum to
pay for a piece of equipment so basic. *I can only hope some
electronics entrepeneur with the assets comes up with a piece of gear
that will undersale the fat cats, but who am I kidding? *Politics will
squash such a rebel.

Say what? This is a ~$120 or so device (assuming the W&W introductory
price). The IGC position recorder effort is an attempt to lower the
costs you are complaining about. Pilots always have the possibility of
putting together a PDA or PNA based system, including using free
software to act as flight recorders for OLC (but not badges/records).
Prices for those start ~$100 or so.

But given some of the limitations for badges and records, I suspect a
better answer for many clubs would be to share a full portable IGC
recorder for those attempts. And anybody who thinks they can design
and manufacture specialized devices for a small worldwide market, put
it though IGC certification, and do so more competitively than the
number of IGC flight recorder manufacturers out there - then do it!
You know, all that free market type stuff...

Darryl

My intention was not to compete directly with certified flight
recorders. If you think for what most pilots need flight recorder you
will see that most of them will fly just for fun, some of them will
post flights on OLC and even less will fly on competitions. And for
all those pilots device like flyWithCE Flight Recorders is an option
which is almost 5 times cheaper than the fully certified flight
records. Maybe nobody is mentioning one of the important points –
hardware and software must be simple to use. And flyWithCE Flight
Recorder and Logbook this certainly is.

As for the price – I believe that with 119 USD (or 89 EUR) for out of
the box solution is very affordable. You can search for the device and
then search for appropriate software. Then most likely you will use
one program to download the data and another program to change the
data to IGC. flyWithCE Logbook simplifies this and adds several
additional features.

At the end I would like to mention another thing. And this is true not
only for me, but also for anyone else out there writing glider
software. When you buy license you also make sure that this developer
will support you and will also work on next version. With free
software there is much less guarantee.

Best regards

Uros
www.flywithce.com

One thing that hsn't really been mentioned is the requirement that you
also have a barograph on board for badges and records if you use a
position recorder instead of a flight recorder. Judy, The Badge Lady,
verified the requirement during her presentation at the SSA
Convention. The barograph must also be calibrated. If you alredy have
a barograph or can find a cheap used one, the cost would be low. If
you had to buy a new one at $350-$600, it wouldn't make sense. The
total cost would approach an approved flight recorder.

Charlie

On Feb 17, 12:37*pm, cfinn wrote:
One thing that hsn't really been mentioned is the requirement that you
also have a barograph on board for badges and records if you use a
position recorder instead of a flight recorder. Judy, The Badge Lady,
verified the requirement during her presentation at the SSA
Convention. The barograph must also be calibrated. If you alredy have
a barograph or can find a cheap used one, the cost would be low. If
you had to buy a new one at $350-$600, it wouldn't make sense. The
total cost would approach an approved flight recorder.

Charlie

Thankfully, there should be a good supply of used Barographs available
these days. ;-)

we offer the FlyWithCE recorder for only $119.00
I think this is already pretty "affordable"!
tim
--
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com


Ian Strachan
Chairman IGC GFA Committee


One can only hope that these recorders come to somewhat of a realistic
price. The retail of these units we must use is a rediculous sum to
pay for a piece of equipment so basic. I can only hope some
electronics entrepeneur with the assets comes up with a piece of gear
that will undersale the fat cats, but who am I kidding? Politics will
squash such a rebel.

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4875 (20100217) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com





__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4875 (20100217) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

Grider Pirate wrote:
On Feb 17, 12:37 pm, cfinn wrote:

One thing that hsn't really been mentioned is the requirement that you
also have a barograph on board for badges and records if you use a
position recorder instead of a flight recorder. Judy, The Badge Lady,
verified the requirement during her presentation at the SSA
Convention. The barograph must also be calibrated. If you alredy have
a barograph or can find a cheap used one, the cost would be low. If
you had to buy a new one at $350-$600, it wouldn't make sense. The
total cost would approach an approved flight recorder.

Charlie


Thankfully, there should be a good supply of used Barographs available
these days. ;-)

Not my Replogle! It sits next to my Dynair Sky-515 and TR-10XA
transceivers in my "soaring museum". It's such a lovely design, I'm not
getting rid of it, even though I never want to use it again.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Jan/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

On Feb 17, 4:25*pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:
we offer the FlyWithCE recorder for only $119.00
I think this is already pretty "affordable"!
tim
--
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com

Ian Strachan
Chairman IGC GFA Committee


One can only hope that these recorders come to somewhat of a realistic
price. *The retail of these units we must use is a rediculous sum to
pay for a piece of equipment so basic. *I can only hope some
electronics entrepeneur with the assets comes up with a piece of gear
that will undersale the fat cats, but who am I kidding? *Politics will
squash such a rebel.

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4875 (20100217) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4875 (20100217) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

My prior post regarding affordability supports the fact that the Fly
with CE is VERY affordable. I was not referencing its cost at all,
but the cost of the other devices. I do carry an Ipaq with freeware
and a blue tooth GPS, great system. As far as the "resignation" that
recorders must be as expensive as they are, I can only think how
totally inisde the box that resignation and thinking are. Tim, your
offerings are superb and you have always offered top to bottom of all
things soaring, while catering to the frugal fliers such as I with the
same vigor as you offer to the "higher end" pilots. Continuing to
present affordable products will open the doors to many more sailplane
pilots, a thing we must do. Thank you.