ground travel

On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:03:30 -0400, Vaughn wrote:

to be fair it looks far closer to reality than the Moller Skycar.

The Terrafugia Transition has actually been flown by a pilot (without a
tether). Here's a link: http://www.terrafugia.com/aircraft/image-gallery.

I don't believe you can say that about Moller's effort, despite its having
many more years in development.

On 24/05/13 08:29, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:03:30 -0400, Vaughn wrote:

to be fair it looks far closer to reality than the Moller Skycar.

The Terrafugia Transition has actually been flown by a pilot (without a
tether). Here's a link: http://www.terrafugia.com/aircraft/image-gallery.

I don't believe you can say that about Moller's effort, despite its having
many more years in development.

Like the 'solar powered aircraft' just another toy

On Fri, 24 May 2013 08:37:29 +1200, george152 wrote:

the 'solar powered aircraft' just another toy


Hmmm... Are you referring to this one
http://www.flyingmag.com/news/two-place-electric-cessna-172-skyhawk?

Two-Place Electric Cessna 172 Skyhawk
By Mark Phelps / Published: Nov 18, 2010

Flying Magazine | The World’s Most Widely Read Aviation Magazine
Enlarge Photo

You could say the bad news is that Bye Energy's plan for an electric Cessna
172 will have only two seats and an endurance of two hours. But the good
news for flight schools might far outweigh those drawbacks. For one, the
energy costs to fly the airplane are expected to be less than $10 per hour.
Time between overhauls on the electric motor are expected to be as much as
25,000 hours, decimating maintenance bills. Power comes from a bank of
lithium ion batteries, solar panels and innovative windmill technology that
reclaims energy from the wingtip vortices. The electric motor (rated at the
equivalent of 180 hp) weighs just 42 pounds, and there is obviously no fuel
load to consider, but those weight savings are offset by the battery pack.
The nose will be more tapered, and a six-blade composite prop will provide
more efficient thrust (since its role as an engine-cooling fan is off the
agenda). Weight and balance are said to be unchanged from that of a
conventional Skyhawk. The combination of electric motor and new prop also
promise much quieter operation in the training environment. Bye Energy
President George Bye hopes to have a proof of concept aircraft flying (with
a more conventional two-blade propeller) sometime next year.

Perhaps, but this one is a toy I'd love to own:
http://electraflyer.com/electraflyer-uls.php
Introducing the ElectraFlyer-ULS!
21 hours flight time as of Feb1 2013

Technical Details
Motor: 20HP direct drive
Cruise Speed: 40MPH
Flight Duration: 2 hours with full battery packs
Battery Packs: Battery packs 1x4.0kwh standard, 2x4.0kwh option
Weight: Empty weight
Maximum Take-off Weight (MTOW)
All carbon fiber construction
245 lbs
525 lbs
Best L/D: 20:1
Min sink rate: 236 ft/min
Price: $59K US ready to fly

And then, there's this one: http://www.solarimpulse.com/en/. I wouldn't
characterize it so much as a toy, given that it has successfully flown half way
across the North American continent; more a proof of concept:

Flight Phoenix KPHX - Dallas KDFW

Pilot: André Borschberg, Co-Founder and CEO
Take off time: May 22nd 04:47AM MST (UTC-7)
Landing time: May 23rd 01:08AM CDT (UTC-5)
Flight duration: 18h21min
Average ground speed: 84 km/h ( 45,3 kt)
Highest altitude reached: 27 000 ft
Flight Distance: 1541 km (~832 NM)

To mention any of these in the same breath as Moller is just a little
misleading....

On 24/05/13 10:20, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 08:37:29 +1200, george152 wrote:

the 'solar powered aircraft' just another toy


Hmmm... Are you referring to this one
http://www.flyingmag.com/news/two-place-electric-cessna-172-skyhawk?

Two-Place Electric Cessna 172 Skyhawk
By Mark Phelps / Published: Nov 18, 2010

Flying Magazine | The World’s Most Widely Read Aviation Magazine
Enlarge Photo

You could say the bad news is that Bye Energy's plan for an electric Cessna
172 will have only two seats and an endurance of two hours. But the good
news for flight schools might far outweigh those drawbacks. For one, the
energy costs to fly the airplane are expected to be less than $10 per hour.
Time between overhauls on the electric motor are expected to be as much as
25,000 hours, decimating maintenance bills. Power comes from a bank of
lithium ion batteries, solar panels and innovative windmill technology that
reclaims energy from the wingtip vortices. The electric motor (rated at the
equivalent of 180 hp) weighs just 42 pounds, and there is obviously no fuel
load to consider, but those weight savings are offset by the battery pack.
The nose will be more tapered, and a six-blade composite prop will provide
more efficient thrust (since its role as an engine-cooling fan is off the
agenda). Weight and balance are said to be unchanged from that of a
conventional Skyhawk. The combination of electric motor and new prop also
promise much quieter operation in the training environment. Bye Energy
President George Bye hopes to have a proof of concept aircraft flying (with
a more conventional two-blade propeller) sometime next year.

Perhaps, but this one is a toy I'd love to own:
http://electraflyer.com/electraflyer-uls.php
Introducing the ElectraFlyer-ULS!
21 hours flight time as of Feb1 2013

Technical Details
Motor: 20HP direct drive
Cruise Speed: 40MPH
Flight Duration: 2 hours with full battery packs
Battery Packs: Battery packs 1x4.0kwh standard, 2x4.0kwh option
Weight: Empty weight
Maximum Take-off Weight (MTOW)
All carbon fiber construction
245 lbs
525 lbs
Best L/D: 20:1
Min sink rate: 236 ft/min
Price: $59K US ready to fly

And then, there's this one: http://www.solarimpulse.com/en/. I wouldn't
characterize it so much as a toy, given that it has successfully flown half way
across the North American continent; more a proof of concept:

Flight Phoenix KPHX - Dallas KDFW

Pilot: André Borschberg, Co-Founder and CEO
Take off time: May 22nd 04:47AM MST (UTC-7)
Landing time: May 23rd 01:08AM CDT (UTC-5)
Flight duration: 18h21min
Average ground speed: 84 km/h ( 45,3 kt)
Highest altitude reached: 27 000 ft
Flight Distance: 1541 km (~832 NM)

To mention any of these in the same breath as Moller is just a little
misleading....

A cross country at 45 knots ?????
That's a toy!

On Fri, 24 May 2013 15:18:35 +1200, george152 wrote:

A cross country at 45 knots ?????
That's a toy!

Agreed. But a fun, unlicensed toy none the less. Add transponder, and it
could get me from a remote strip atop Point Conception to my airport-car at
KSBA to facilitate grocery shopping. Call me a dreamer ...

Battery technology is constantly improving:

http://www.gizmag.com/researchers-increase-lifespan-lis-batteries/26911/:
Though more powerful and less expensive to produce than the more widely used
lithium-ion batteries, lithium-sulfur batteries have typically sported a
comparatively poor lifespan. However, the Dresden-based researchers have
successfully developed a new design that increases the charge cycles of
lithium-sulfur batteries by a factor of seven.

“During previous tests, the batteries scarcely crossed the 200-cycle mark,”
said Dr. Holger Althues, head of the Chemical Surface Technology group at IWS.
"By means of a special combination of anode and cathode material, we have now
managed to extend the lifespan of lithium-sulfur button cells to 1,400 cycles."

IWS researchers expect to refine the lithium-sulfur batteries to the point
where they reach an energy density of up to 600 watt-hours/kilogram (Wh/kg).
This would beat the lithium-ion density record of 400 Wh/kg claimed last year
by Envia, and more than double that of Li-ion batteries currently in use.

"Lithium-sulfur technology might even make electric flying a realistic
possibility,” said Althues. “Although such progress is still a long way off.”

On 25/05/13 06:21, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 15:18:35 +1200, george152 wrote:

A cross country at 45 knots ?????
That's a toy!

Agreed. But a fun, unlicensed toy none the less. Add transponder, and it
could get me from a remote strip atop Point Conception to my airport-car at
KSBA to facilitate grocery shopping. Call me a dreamer ...

Buy a microlight.

One I saw had a cruise of 160 knots, two seat four hour endurance
Wouldn't be worth getting out of as its as good as any current GA machine