27 crash at Ely?

On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 3:17:35 PM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:
... Suddenly the left wing went down, rolling me towards the ridge,
fortunately some 2,000 feet below. Full right aileron and full right rudder
did nothing to stop the roll, and the bank kept getting steeper. After what
seemed like an hour but was probably about 10 seconds, my LS-8 responded
and rolled level.

So you immediately moved upwind and climbed in the smooth wave, right? ;-)

On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 11:57:32 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

I was on a hiatus from soaring when Geoff Lyons had his accident. Can someone please tell me what happened?

Not sure of all the details. I was involved in the search flying my Husky with Fred LaSor in the back seat. We were over on the Sierra, west of the Whites, when the wreckage was spotted from Jim Herds Bonanza. Too tight and turbulent for them to get a good view so they asked me to overfly. This was on the west side of the Whites approaching the north end.

After overflying high to spot the wreck, we flew in northbound at probably 100 feet AGL. As we approached we crossed a canyon that was maybe 100 to 150' south of the crash site, as we flew over that small canyon there was significant turbulence (got Fred's attention). Other glide pilots said there was often severe localized turbulence there and they gave that spot wide berth.

We were mostly looking for signs of life, and sadly there were none. Looked to be a high energy impact, probably at a steep angle as IIRC the wings were broken but perpendicular to the fuselage.

On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 12:18:19 PM UTC-7, wrote:
"Being close to steep slopes is generally safer than shallow slopes because your escape routes get more clearance sooner."

I wonder how steep the terrain was? The Whites can produce brutal air currents. It;s like the blink of an eye and you. Scares you enough to leave some some extra escape room on those days. Terrain is a very complex thing. It seems ( I am speculating here) that the terrain where the accident occurred was not very steep.

Can someone confirm?

The slope is medium in that it isn't vertical. In places it is very steep, as near vertical.

After giving it some thought, I think that Marak was thermalling up the slope in a left turn, below the ridge top, when he saw his opportunity to clear the ridge and circle directly over it in the strongest lift. I have done this many times, but this time he got a gust that stalled the low (left) wing and he dropped. He almost would have cleared the ridge, but did not. End of story.

Tom

On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 12:18:19 PM UTC-7, wrote:
"Being close to steep slopes is generally safer than shallow slopes because your escape routes get more clearance sooner."

I wonder how steep the terrain was? The Whites can produce brutal air currents. It;s like the blink of an eye and you. Scares you enough to leave some some extra escape room on those days. Terrain is a very complex thing. It seems ( I am speculating here) that the terrain where the accident occurred was not very steep.

Can someone confirm?

The slope is medium in that it isn't vertical. In places it is very steep, as near vertical.

After giving it some thought, I think that Marak was thermalling up the slope in a left turn, below the ridge top, when he saw his opportunity to clear the ridge and circle directly over it in the strongest lift. I have done this many times, but this time he got a gust that stalled the low (left) wing and he dropped. He almost would have cleared the ridge, but did not. End of story.

Tom

On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 9:56:26 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 12:18:19 PM UTC-7, wrote:
"Being close to steep slopes is generally safer than shallow slopes because your escape routes get more clearance sooner."

I wonder how steep the terrain was? The Whites can produce brutal air currents. It;s like the blink of an eye and you. Scares you enough to leave some some extra escape room on those days. Terrain is a very complex thing. It seems ( I am speculating here) that the terrain where the accident occurred was not very steep.

Can someone confirm?
The slope is medium in that it isn't vertical. In places it is very steep, as near vertical.

After giving it some thought, I think that Marak was thermalling up the slope in a left turn, below the ridge top, when he saw his opportunity to clear the ridge and circle directly over it in the strongest lift. I have done this many times, but this time he got a gust that stalled the low (left) wing and he dropped. He almost would have cleared the ridge, but did not. End of story.

Tom
My son is backpacking the Sierras right now and just reported, “winds were crazy all night, huge gusts then, just stop at 8700’ ridge top�.............this got me remembering hiking up Siegel Mountain, near Minden to place a marker where Jack Bamberg crashed for unknown reasons. About noon it was dead calm, then the wind would come up a good 15 knots, then suddenly stop. Fifteen minutes later it would do it again. The winds were up slope and probably thermals. Next day we placed another marker on the White Mountains just east of Bishop at about noon. Very gentle up slope wind. One of the guys brought along a roll of toilet paper and threw up a handful of single sheets at the edge of the little plateau where Tom Madigan crashed. The paper rose up in the gentle up slope winds and then curled over and came back down to the sagebrush!................we never really know what’s going on just outside our little cockpit!
JJ

On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 8:45:10 AM UTC-7, John Sinclair wrote:
On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 9:56:26 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 12:18:19 PM UTC-7, wrote:
"Being close to steep slopes is generally safer than shallow slopes because your escape routes get more clearance sooner."

I wonder how steep the terrain was? The Whites can produce brutal air currents. It;s like the blink of an eye and you. Scares you enough to leave some some extra escape room on those days. Terrain is a very complex thing. It seems ( I am speculating here) that the terrain where the accident occurred was not very steep.

Can someone confirm?
The slope is medium in that it isn't vertical. In places it is very steep, as near vertical.

After giving it some thought, I think that Marak was thermalling up the slope in a left turn, below the ridge top, when he saw his opportunity to clear the ridge and circle directly over it in the strongest lift. I have done this many times, but this time he got a gust that stalled the low (left) wing and he dropped. He almost would have cleared the ridge, but did not. End of story.

Tom
My son is backpacking the Sierras right now and just reported, “winds were crazy all night, huge gusts then, just stop at 8700’ ridge top�.............this got me remembering hiking up Siegel Mountain, near Minden to place a marker where Jack Bamberg crashed for unknown reasons. About noon it was dead calm, then the wind would come up a good 15 knots, then suddenly stop. Fifteen minutes later it would do it again. The winds were up slope and probably thermals. Next day we placed another marker on the White Mountains just east of Bishop at about noon. Very gentle up slope wind. One of the guys brought along a roll of toilet paper and threw up a handful of single sheets at the edge of the little plateau where Tom Madigan crashed. The paper rose up in the gentle up slope winds and then curled over and came back down to the sagebrush!................we never really know what’s going on just outside our little cockpit!
JJ

There was another crash at Ely a few years ago under similar gusty wind conditions. The pilot lost control of the glider and successfully bailed out. Mountains seem to amplify the magnitude of the gusts. Staying on the ground during on these days is clearly prudent. I have said before, I would rather be down here (on the ground) wishing I were up there (flying), than be up there wishing I was down here.

Tom