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Rocket Racing League First Exhibition Race August 1st and August 2nd, 2008



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 2nd 08, 12:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.homebuilt
Vaughn Simon
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Posts: 735
Default Rocket Racing League First Exhibition Race August 1st and August 2nd, 2008


"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:06:27 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

... of course a plane
just out of the pits will be a lot slower and have less acceleration than
those
already aloft (due to still carrying a heavy fuel load).


Reduced acceleration yes, but a heavier aircraft has a faster best L/D, (all
else being equal) which is why competition gliders often fly with water ballast.

If you take the time to think about it, the optimum Fuel Consumption vs Gross
Weight vs Altitude vs Speed vs Flight Duration vs Range strategy for these birds
gets more and more complicated.

Vaughn



  #22  
Old July 2nd 08, 04:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.homebuilt
Rich S.[_1_]
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Posts: 227
Default Rocket Racing League First Exhibition Race August 1st and August 2nd, 2008

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...

Still didn't' find anything on the web page about flight altitudes. It
might be
something they leave up to the teams to decide...either go up high and
coast
downhill at high speeds, or stay low and run the engine in short blips.


Something I saw indicated the course would be 3-D. They would have "gates"
with upper, lower, left and right boundaries. So, they would have to climb,
dive, left and right maneuvers. Only the vectors between the gates would be
left up to the pilots, as well as the use of power.

The racers wouldn't be aiming for the same gate. The computer would have
gates for each racer, perhaps laid out side-by-side (with spacing for
safety), so the planes would appear to be racing but in reality flying
parallel courses.

I think that was on a TV spot or perhaps an animated internet movie clip.

Rich S.


  #23  
Old July 3rd 08, 05:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.homebuilt
Ron Wanttaja
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Posts: 756
Default Rocket Racing League First Exhibition Race August 1st and August 2nd, 2008

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:44:03 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:

... of course a plane
just out of the pits will be a lot slower and have less acceleration than
those already aloft (due to still carrying a heavy fuel load).


Reduced acceleration yes, but a heavier aircraft has a faster best L/D, (all
else being equal) which is why competition gliders often fly with water ballast.



If you take the time to think about it, the optimum Fuel Consumption vs Gross
Weight vs Altitude vs Speed vs Flight Duration vs Range strategy for these birds
gets more and more complicated.


You're right, of course. As an engineer, it's a problem that really tickles my
fancy.

However, we're right back to considering how interesting the races will be
(e.g., how willing they are to pay for another) to the average spectator. A
spectator at a NASCAR race or at Reno can easily judge how their favorite racer
is doing...e.g., if he's passing a lot of other vehicles, he's probably a
front-runner.

Not the case with the RRL. For one thing, the planes stagger their
takeoffs...they don't start at the same time. So unless the course length
differs for each aircraft (which is a really, REALLY thorny problem in fuel
planning), the order they cross the "finish line" has nothing to do with their
standings.

Plus, EVERY plane will be getting passed by the other planes in the first half
of their flight, and passing more and more of the other planes as their tanks go
dry and their acceleration increases (a RRL plane has about a 0.75G capability
at takeoff, but is able to accelerate at 1.5Gs just prior to running out of
fuel).

I'm sure the NASCAR and Reno events are complicated enough that to truly
understand how each competitor is doing, the spectator must consult the
scoreboard. But if a guy is a Rare Bear fan, he can probably tell pretty well
how the plane is doing just by watching it.

Not so in the RRL. It doesn't mean a thing if their favorite is passing other
racers; it just means the aircraft has burned more fuel. It doesn't mean a
thing if a racer crosses the finish line in front of others; it may have taken
off minutes before they did. So the spectator's eyes gravitate towards the
video monitors. By the end of the day, he'll probably come to the conclusion
that he could have followed the race better from his computer at home.

The discussion on this thread started when Harry asked if the racers were just
racing against the clock. I corrected him... but the more I think about it, the
more I think he had it right. The rockets are aloft at the same time, but each
is racing against an individual clock.

Ron Wanttaja
  #24  
Old July 3rd 08, 05:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.homebuilt
Steve Hix
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Posts: 340
Default Rocket Racing League First Exhibition Race August 1st and August 2nd, 2008

In article ,
Ron Wanttaja wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:44:03 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:

... of course a plane
just out of the pits will be a lot slower and have less acceleration than
those already aloft (due to still carrying a heavy fuel load).


Reduced acceleration yes, but a heavier aircraft has a faster best L/D,
(all
else being equal) which is why competition gliders often fly with water
ballast.



If you take the time to think about it, the optimum Fuel Consumption vs
Gross
Weight vs Altitude vs Speed vs Flight Duration vs Range strategy for these
birds
gets more and more complicated.


You're right, of course. As an engineer, it's a problem that really tickles
my
fancy.

However, we're right back to considering how interesting the races will be
(e.g., how willing they are to pay for another) to the average spectator. A
spectator at a NASCAR race or at Reno can easily judge how their favorite
racer
is doing...e.g., if he's passing a lot of other vehicles, he's probably a
front-runner.

Not the case with the RRL. For one thing, the planes stagger their
takeoffs...they don't start at the same time. So unless the course length
differs for each aircraft (which is a really, REALLY thorny problem in fuel
planning), the order they cross the "finish line" has nothing to do with
their
standings.

Plus, EVERY plane will be getting passed by the other planes in the first
half
of their flight, and passing more and more of the other planes as their tanks
go
dry and their acceleration increases (a RRL plane has about a 0.75G
capability
at takeoff, but is able to accelerate at 1.5Gs just prior to running out of
fuel).

I'm sure the NASCAR and Reno events are complicated enough that to truly
understand how each competitor is doing, the spectator must consult the
scoreboard. But if a guy is a Rare Bear fan, he can probably tell pretty
well
how the plane is doing just by watching it.

Not so in the RRL. It doesn't mean a thing if their favorite is passing
other
racers; it just means the aircraft has burned more fuel. It doesn't mean a
thing if a racer crosses the finish line in front of others; it may have
taken
off minutes before they did. So the spectator's eyes gravitate towards the
video monitors. By the end of the day, he'll probably come to the conclusion
that he could have followed the race better from his computer at home.

The discussion on this thread started when Harry asked if the racers were
just
racing against the clock. I corrected him... but the more I think about it,
the
more I think he had it right. The rockets are aloft at the same time, but
each
is racing against an individual clock.


It's beginning to sound more and more like a bicycle time trial.

If it's done right, it could be pretty compelling (look at cycle racing
fans in europe), or it could end up being good for insomniacs.
  #25  
Old July 3rd 08, 07:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.homebuilt
cavelamb himself[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 474
Default Rocket Racing League First Exhibition Race August 1st and August2nd, 2008

Ron Wanttaja wrote:

The discussion on this thread started when Harry asked if the racers were just
racing against the clock. I corrected him... but the more I think about it, the
more I think he had it right. The rockets are aloft at the same time, but each
is racing against an individual clock.

Ron Wanttaja


It's beginning to sound more like a made for TV stunt.
 




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