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Unusual attitude recovery advice sought



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 26th 08, 12:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Barry
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Posts: 70
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

Exposure does build tolerance.

Yes sir. If I ever become a CFI I'm going to start practicing unusual
attitudes nice and early in the student's training rather than a week
before the checkride!


This is another good example of why it's so important to use a good syllabus.
The Jeppesen syllabus I've used includes unusual attitude recovery in lessons
1, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 12, and in three stage checks as well.


  #12  
Old March 26th 08, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Ash Wyllie
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Posts: 100
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

john smith opined

Eamon McKinley wrote:
Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.


My thoughts are to take care of flying in the following order:


1. airspeed - increasing... pull back on the throttle; decreasing...
push in on the throttle


2. pitch attitude - nose down... pull back on the yoke/stick; nose up...
push forward on the yoke/stick


3. roll attitude - roll left/right to wings level


check airspeed
low high
nose down, level wings level wings, nose up



-ash
Cthulhu in 2008!
Vote the greater evil.


  #13  
Old March 26th 08, 10:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Barry
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Posts: 70
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

Power off
Level the wings
nose to the horizon
power to hold nose on the horizon


I agree with the sequence, but don't forget that the attitude indictor might
be wrong. In fact, an instrument or vacuum failure is a likely cause of
getting into an unusual attitude in the first place.

The IR PTS used to specify that the unusual attitude recovery be done partial
panel, but this was apparently changed in the last revision. I think that
instrument students should be taught to recover from unusual attitudes without
the attitude indicator - use turn coordinator for bank, and airspeed/VSI for
pitch. Once things are under control, then check the AI and see if it agrees.

On an instrument proficiency check, I like to do unusual attitude recovery
near the end. I cover the attitude indicator while the pilot has his eyes
closed, have him recover, then continue on partial panel and do the partial
panel approach. You can only surprise a pilot once with this, but it can be
effective. If a simulator or ground trainer is available and you can fail
instruments, that's much better.

Barry


  #14  
Old March 26th 08, 10:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Bob F.[_2_]
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Posts: 84
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

Yup, One of my favorite "tricks" in UA training it to rotate the "bar" full
up while the student has his head in his lap to see how much reliability the
student has on the AI and can figure out that it has "failed". IOW, can he
do a cross check quickly enough, you know, like before we hit the surface
would be nice. I get an amazing number nail the horizon and take way too
much time still going down before they put it together. The good news is, I
never caught anyone twice.

--
Regards, BobF.
"Barry" wrote in message
. ..
Power off
Level the wings
nose to the horizon
power to hold nose on the horizon


I agree with the sequence, but don't forget that the attitude indictor
might be wrong. In fact, an instrument or vacuum failure is a likely
cause of getting into an unusual attitude in the first place.

The IR PTS used to specify that the unusual attitude recovery be done
partial panel, but this was apparently changed in the last revision. I
think that instrument students should be taught to recover from unusual
attitudes without the attitude indicator - use turn coordinator for bank,
and airspeed/VSI for pitch. Once things are under control, then check the
AI and see if it agrees.

On an instrument proficiency check, I like to do unusual attitude recovery
near the end. I cover the attitude indicator while the pilot has his eyes
closed, have him recover, then continue on partial panel and do the
partial panel approach. You can only surprise a pilot once with this, but
it can be effective. If a simulator or ground trainer is available and
you can fail instruments, that's much better.

Barry


  #15  
Old March 27th 08, 04:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Ron Natalie
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Posts: 1,175
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

john smith wrote:
Eamon McKinley wrote:
Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.


My thoughts are to take care of flying in the following order:

1. airspeed - increasing... pull back on the throttle; decreasing...
push in on the throttle

2. pitch attitude - nose down... pull back on the yoke/stick; nose up...
push forward on the yoke/stick

3. roll attitude - roll left/right to wings level


This is NOT the generally taught method.
You must roll the wings level before pulling back to break a dive
or you risk just pulling yourself into a graveyard spiral.
  #16  
Old March 27th 08, 04:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]
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Posts: 3,735
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

In addition to all the other good advice you got here, i'll add this.
Recovery should be smooth and deliberate. Not to quick and not too slow,
but above all, smooth. Not so much for the examiner, but for any real life
situation which neccesitates a recovery from an unusual attitude be it imc
or vmc

Bertie
  #17  
Old March 27th 08, 11:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
gatt[_2_]
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Posts: 248
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought


"Eamon McKinley" wrote in message
...

On the ground we discussed the situation and my CFII told me that he
likes to be aggressive with the unusual attitudes in order that I can
handle the worst cases. He also said the CE he uses likes to do the
same. Rather than cancel the checkride, his recommendation was that
one of us briefs the DE that I have low negative G tolerance. I don't
know how I feel about this, it seems like a cop-out to be quite
honest.



Boy, that could be trouble if the DE decides that he's going to test your
tolerance in light of that.

My chief instructor for instrument and commercial made a point to do unusual
attitude recovery every time we turned home from dual instruction. For
some people it comes instinctively, but for me I might have lucked out with
a couple of instructors who loved to do them.

If partial G forces trouble you then it might be worth doing them several
times with your eyes open so you can physiologically condition yourself so
that it's easier to prepare pyschologically.

-c


  #18  
Old March 28th 08, 06:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
John T
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Posts: 194
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

"Eamon McKinley" wrote in message


Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.


The goal is to put you in an unusual attitude, not introduce you to
aerobatics. I've not had a DE use strong inputs to disorient me during a
checkride and, as others have mentioned, putting you in an unusual attitude
can be done in a disorienting way without un/loading the airplane much at
all.

There was one time I got in a slightly unusual attitude between layers. It
was a combination of sloping clouds and my reading notes on my lap for a few
seconds that did it for me. While the attitude was not serious (only about a
15 degree bank and maybe 8 degrees nose up), it was not "usual" for that
phase of flight - and I didn't feel the slightest G load getting there.

One instructor I used had me close my eyes, look at my lap, then asked me to
turn, climb, level, turn, level, descend, level, open eyes - and whaddaya
know, I was most assuredly not in level flight. Considering how I got myself
into the attitude I described above, maybe this instructor's technique has
some merit.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________


  #19  
Old April 3rd 08, 06:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Barney Rubble
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Posts: 76
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

That's the best advice. I once got into the start of a graveyard spiral on a
VERY turbulent day when I took my eye off the ball for a split second to
tune the radio. When i glanced back I noticed the plane was 90 degrees off
heading and the VSI was pegged downwards. It happened in less than 2
seconds, I kid you not. Instinct took over and I levelled the wings and got
the altitude back on track before the controller even noticed. Boy did I get
the cold chills. I was single pilot in heavy IMC with the rian beating on
the windshield, moderate turb PIREPS all around and minimums below. Not a
goot time to let things slide. I was back on alt and heading before the
controller even noticed.... I'm pleased I practiced UA and smooth control of
the plane.

- Barney


  #20  
Old April 3rd 08, 07:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Ken S. Tucker
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Posts: 442
Default Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

Hi Barney - not :-) - Rubble.

On Apr 3, 9:00 am, "Barney Rubble" wrote:
That's the best advice. I once got into the start of a graveyard spiral on a
VERY turbulent day when I took my eye off the ball for a split second to
tune the radio. When i glanced back I noticed the plane was 90 degrees off
heading and the VSI was pegged downwards. It happened in less than 2
seconds, I kid you not. Instinct took over and I levelled the wings and got
the altitude back on track before the controller even noticed. Boy did I get
the cold chills. I was single pilot in heavy IMC with the rian beating on
the windshield, moderate turb PIREPS all around and minimums below. Not a
goot time to let things slide. I was back on alt and heading before the
controller even noticed.... I'm pleased I practiced UA and smooth control of
the plane.
- Barney


That's damn interesting. Consider a vortex, we see
them as tornadoes when they actually mature and
touch down to the ground.
But suppose only 1 in a hundred, actually become
mature tornadoes and the rest exist in bad weather,
inside clouds that Barney may have encountered.

There is a lot of different kinds of turbulence, that
could appear in seconds as one flys into a vortex.

I've seen plenty of photo's of little titties on the bottom
of storm clouds, (I think they are usually Nimbo Stratus,
but not always), that dissipated.

That gives me an idea for a new instrument,
something like a "stall buzzer".
If a delta attitude occurs, that is NOT a result of an
control input, then that would warn of either a
weather or structural anomally. Fortunately for
Barney it was a weather anomally.

Don't quite know how to build it yet but that's just
application of ingenuity.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker
 




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