3 more Qs

I'm an old B-707 engineer. Seems it was something like 7degrees wing
down and you got the cowl. Land gliders all the time with a slip to
keep from getting a wing tip. Kick out the slip just prior to
touchdown. One time the cross wind was high enough, I just landed
across the runway at an intersection.

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Sorry for being naive here Bob, but does touching down with the nose
not pointed down the center of the airstrip, which is what I presume
would happen if you touched down in the crab, bust the wheels?

Certainly not good for light general aviation aircraft, but the
Boeings seem to take it easily.


I recall a 747 Captain telling me of how the aircraft is designed to
withstand something like a crab into a 25 knot cross wind without kicking it
straight - said he did it once, and suspects the passengers in the rear of
the aircraft are still having their necks treated by a chiropractor!

Possibly a point worth noting is that when you "kick an aircraft straight"
you still have a considerable mass heading straight down the runway, and the
aircraft simply has too much enertia to accelerate laterally in the short
time between being "kicked straight" and touchdown. I know that some
disagree, but even in GA I tend to kick it straight at the last moment, but
add "more" opposite aileron to counter the adverse bank and drop the
upstream wing - works for me every time.

In talking with 757 Captains I'm told that the max angle of bank in landing
is something like 5 deg.

Bob Moore wrote:
"Ramapriya" wrote
Sorry for being naive here Bob, but does touching down with the
nose
not pointed down the center of the airstrip, which is what I
presume
would happen if you touched down in the crab, bust the wheels?

Certainly not good for light general aviation aircraft, but the
Boeings seem to take it easily.


Unless you happen to be flying an Ercoupe, which is designed to land
crabbed in a crosswind. The gear is purposely beefed up for this
purpose. On most other GA aircraft, it's definitely not advisable.

On one of my very first lessons, I was on final following a Tomahawk
landing with a stiff crosswind. My instructor told me to watch the
Piper closely to see how the pilot corrected the crab just before
touchdown, to land the plane with the nose aligned with the runway.
Well, the (student) pilot didn't correct for the crosswind and touched
down while still in a crab. We watched the right gear leg fly off the
bottom of the wing and take out the right side of the horizontal
T-tail. The plane slid to a stop on it's right wing, with pieces of the
tail scattered over the runway. My instructor then informed me that I
had just learned a valuable lesson about crosswind landings at
relatively little expense to me.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Was the cross wind from the left or the right?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Bob Moore wrote:
"Ramapriya" wrote
Sorry for being naive here Bob, but does touching down with the
nose
not pointed down the center of the airstrip, which is what I
presume
would happen if you touched down in the crab, bust the wheels?

Certainly not good for light general aviation aircraft, but the
Boeings seem to take it easily.


Unless you happen to be flying an Ercoupe, which is designed to land
crabbed in a crosswind. The gear is purposely beefed up for this
purpose. On most other GA aircraft, it's definitely not advisable.

On one of my very first lessons, I was on final following a Tomahawk
landing with a stiff crosswind. My instructor told me to watch the
Piper closely to see how the pilot corrected the crab just before
touchdown, to land the plane with the nose aligned with the runway.
Well, the (student) pilot didn't correct for the crosswind and touched
down while still in a crab. We watched the right gear leg fly off the
bottom of the wing and take out the right side of the horizontal
T-tail. The plane slid to a stop on it's right wing, with pieces of the
tail scattered over the runway. My instructor then informed me that I
had just learned a valuable lesson about crosswind landings at
relatively little expense to me.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Cockpit Colin wrote:
Was the cross wind from the left or the right?


It was a right crosswind. It would appear that the gear was better
suited to withstand a side load from the outside (like the left main),
than the inside.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

That's the bit I can't figure out - in that scenario I would have thought
that the leg / tire (or a vector component thereof) would simply be dragged
behind the aircraft.

I've heard of tire marks on the underside of the wings on Tomahawks from
extremely hard landings - but with the mechanism still in tact - which would
make one think that the undercarriage was pretty sturdy.


wrote in message
oups.com...

Cockpit Colin wrote:
Was the cross wind from the left or the right?


It was a right crosswind. It would appear that the gear was better
suited to withstand a side load from the outside (like the left main),
than the inside.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

On one of my very first lessons, I was on final following a Tomahawk
landing with a stiff crosswind. My instructor told me to watch the
Piper closely to see how the pilot corrected the crab just before
touchdown, to land the plane with the nose aligned with the runway.
Well, the (student) pilot didn't correct for the crosswind and touched
down while still in a crab. We watched the right gear leg fly off the
bottom of the wing and take out the right side of the horizontal
T-tail. The plane slid to a stop on it's right wing, with pieces of the
tail scattered over the runway. My instructor then informed me that I
had just learned a valuable lesson about crosswind landings at
relatively little expense to me.


YIKES! I presume you have never ever ever did what this guy did.
Did you thank your instructor for the days effective training?

Gerald

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 at 23:29:34 in message
, Morgans
wrote:

It has been my experience, from riding the heavy iron, that the combination
of a slightly low wing and kicking the crab out is what is used. I say that
only from observation, as it feels like one side hits, followed *very
quickly* by the other side landing. Sometimes, it does feel like you are
taking a quick ride towards the lights.

I have a little book that describes in detail a 747 flight from Toronto
to Heathrow. An autoland is carried out at Heathrow. It describes how,
in the first stages of the landing, the aircraft is aligned with the
runway in a crosswind by heading slightly into the cross wind. At 500 ft
to go the auto-pilot changes to 'runway align' and the wing is lowered
on one side and the rudder keeps the aircraft aligned with the runway. I
understand that the maximum autoland crosswind is 25 knots.
--
David CL Francis

Cockpit Colin wrote:
That's the bit I can't figure out - in that scenario I would have
thought
that the leg / tire (or a vector component thereof) would simply be
dragged
behind the aircraft.

It would have, had it stayed attached.

I've heard of tire marks on the underside of the wings on Tomahawks
from
extremely hard landings - but with the mechanism still in tact -
which would
make one think that the undercarriage was pretty sturdy.

And there's the lesson. I've also seen Tomahawk landing gear that
had taken a tremendous beating, with no apparent damage. The
difference is that those landings, although hard, were pretty much in
line with the runway. When it comes to side loads, all bets are off
unless you're flying an Ercoupe.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

G. Sylvester wrote:

YIKES! I presume you have never ever ever did what this guy did.
snip

Of course not. I've seen those who will sometimes cheat a little on
the crosswind landing and touch down with a bit of crab. In a tricycle
geared plane, the plane will straighten itself out. I learned early on
that you don't mess around with side loads on the gear.
John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)