Don't point RPGs at US soldiers!

"Peter Kemp" wrote in message
...
On 19 Jun 2004 06:04:01 GMT, (Regnirps) wrote:

(Dav1936531) wrote:

Which doesn't explain the pics of Army snipers toting the M-14 variants
I
mentioned coming across the Associated Press wire feed on Iraq that is
available here on AOL. There was one of a guy covering a field after a
convoy
ambush just recently with just such a rifle.

It's a favorite for some all right. Too bad Clinton gave away to Bosnia
and
sold to Taiwan for $56 each, 125,000 M14s. After all, he cut the size of
the
military so drastically, who would need them?

Well no, they were already surplus after Bush 41's cuts (which were
larger than Clinton's), and most were darn near worn out after 30
years use - check out how much the Phillipinos had to pay to get
theirs up to scratch.

Can you show what major use of the M-14 went on for thirty years in the US
military? The vast majority of M-14's have spent the greatest part of their
lives in long-term storage, and the weapon had a very short service life as
the primary weapon for troops. Some were rebuilt as M-21's, some have been
used by various SOF elements, and IIRC the USN has used some in the
shipboard defense role. But most have languished in cosmoline (other than
the relative few issued to support military schools, such as West Point,
VMI, the Citadel, etc.; and based upon personal experience with a few of
those, I can vouch for the fact that those examples are *very* well
maintained--doing a week's barracks confinement for "RoR" (rust-on-rifle)
was never *my* idea of a fun time during that period of my life... :-)

Brooks


Peter Kemp

"T3" wrote in
om:

[snip]

rounds. Do we even know where it was taken (I don't speak the
language of the news reporter!).. might it have been Israel rather
than Iraq?

Language was Spanish I think.

who's the guy who walks out from the back ground?, a 'contractor'?

Might be a journalist.

Anybody know if the shootee had popped off a round and was
maybe awaiting reload when he got the "Come To Jesus".

[snip]

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:49:15 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

Can you show what major use of the M-14 went on for thirty years in the US
military? The vast majority of M-14's have spent the greatest part of their
lives in long-term storage, and the weapon had a very short service life as
the primary weapon for troops.

My Bad, I thought the M-14 was still a primary weapon for large parts
of the US Army into the 1980's for NATO compatibility reasons. I was
wrong.
Granted the US Navy had them longer, but the numbers are rather
smaller and corrosion aside they're probably in better shape than the
US Army versions.

Peter Kemp

From: "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" am
Date: 6/19/2004 6:04 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Regnirps wrote:
"It's Me Again" wrote:

For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad
Automatic
Weapon.

For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of
Kirby
and his BAR.

What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?


I don't remember another ground combat show at that same time, but it seems
like
"12 O'Clock High" was on with Paul Burke as the CO. Also "McHale's Navy...
but
I don't think that's the one you mean.

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


There was another one that came out during Combat's second season. The only
thing I remember about it was the parachute flare during the opening credits.

There was also a female version of Mchale's Navy called "Broadsides."

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

B2431 wrote:

From: "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" am
Date: 6/19/2004 6:04 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Regnirps wrote:

"It's Me Again" wrote:


For those of you who are wondering what SAW is (I was), it's Squad

Automatic

Weapon.

For those who remember "Combat", the SAW man is the modern equivalent of

Kirby

and his BAR.

What was the WWII TV show that competed with Combat?


I don't remember another ground combat show at that same time, but it seems
like
"12 O'Clock High" was on with Paul Burke as the CO. Also "McHale's Navy...
but
I don't think that's the one you mean.


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN



There was another one that came out during Combat's second season. The only
thing I remember about it was the parachute flare during the opening credits.

There was also a female version of Mchale's Navy called "Broadsides."

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Earlier than those was "Rat Patrol" taking place in the Western Desert
during the African campaigns. Wild and wooly shoot-em-up in jeeps with
fifties mounted.

George

Earlier than those was "Rat Patrol" taking place in the Western Desert
during the African campaigns. Wild and wooly shoot-em-up in jeeps with
fifties mounted.


Clinch that cee-gar between your teeth and charge the 10 enemy armored vehicles
that look remarkably like the same 10 armored that guarded similar trucks
(eventually passed down to Hooogan's Heroes, I think) you blew up last week.
Curiously, Erwin Rommel is a late-20s dashing evilguy Victor Newman, with
apparently nothing better to do than run around the desert losing two battles
per week to a small roving band of ninjas in Land Rovers. "Rat Patrol",
Hogan's nitwits, 12 O'clock High, McHale's Navy, and a few others (Gilligan,
anyone?) were my primary after-school diversions as a youngster. I grew up
thinking all ship Captains were idiots (unless they drove a PT-boat); all
Majors had combat fatigue; our guns never ran out but apparently a lot of our
bombs were duds; a Corsair could beat anything in the sky (as long as it was
maintained by the worst Sergeant ever busted back to Private); most blustery
Colonels ultimately withdraw from conflict (beaten, invariably, by a crafter,
young Major); RAF planes explode - Japanese planes fall in flames - German
planes that fall in combat have an insane Nazi pilot guiding it down - all
heavily damaged US planes make it back to base; and most German soldiers wore
their Knights Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds and Shovels proudly at
their necks. Its the closest thing to a military education my family could
afford.

v/r
Gordon
PS, Shipmates, come to the USS KIRK reunion next weekend, San Diego.Muster on
the bow of the USS Midway, our old "high value unit". Good weather promised.
====(A+C====
USN SAR

An LZ is a place you want to land, not stay.

From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 6/18/04 8:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

There was talk of providing the old M-21's down to the unit level for use by
"designated marksmen", IIRC, as they were replaced in the sniper role by the
M-24; I can remember a time when the standard weapons package for our MSCA-CD
(Military Support to Civil Authorities--Civil Disturbance) mission included a
couple of M-21's (along with a few 12 ga pump shotguns) in a similar role. That
may explain where you saw them--then again, are you sure you were not seeing a
SEAL or two (ISTR they sometimes carry the M-14 in desert operations), and not
Army folks?
Brooks

The guy in the pic was definitely Army. It was one of a series of pics showing
an Army unit's response to a convoy ambush. The guy in possesion was prone on
the side of a ditch covering any enemy advance from a field next to the road
where the convoy was ambushed. Couldn't tell you if the rifle was an M-14,
M-21, or M-24 though as I am not that familiar with the differences, but it had
that basic design of the M-14 (box mag semi-auto) and was equiped with a
telescopic sight and bipod.
Dave

From: nt (Krztalizer)
Date: 6/19/2004 8:58 PM Central


snip

and most German soldiers
wore
their Knights Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, Diamonds and Shovels proudly at
their necks. Its the closest thing to a military education my family could
afford.

v/r
Gordon


And all German interrogators said "ve haff veys."

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"B2431" wrote

And all German interrogators said "ve haff veys."

The monacle! Don't forget the monacle!

Pete

"Dav1936531" wrote in message
...
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 6/18/04 8:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

There was talk of providing the old M-21's down to the unit level for use
by
"designated marksmen", IIRC, as they were replaced in the sniper role by
the
M-24; I can remember a time when the standard weapons package for our
MSCA-CD
(Military Support to Civil Authorities--Civil Disturbance) mission
included a
couple of M-21's (along with a few 12 ga pump shotguns) in a similar role.
That
may explain where you saw them--then again, are you sure you were not
seeing a
SEAL or two (ISTR they sometimes carry the M-14 in desert operations), and
not
Army folks?
Brooks

The guy in the pic was definitely Army. It was one of a series of pics
showing
an Army unit's response to a convoy ambush. The guy in possesion was prone
on
the side of a ditch covering any enemy advance from a field next to the
road
where the convoy was ambushed. Couldn't tell you if the rifle was an M-14,
M-21, or M-24 though as I am not that familiar with the differences, but
it had
that basic design of the M-14 (box mag semi-auto) and was equiped with a
telescopic sight and bipod.

Up until you mentioned the bipod, you had me thinking M-21. But I don't
recall seeing any bipods being used with M-21's (and I seriously doubt any
of the ones that were at one *distant* time available for M-14's are still
around). I guess it could be an M-21 with a bipod, but I have never seen one
so equipped (note that the M-24 bolt action replacment does have a bipod
included in the kit). OTOH, are you sure you were maybe not gettting a
squirrely view of a M-249 (which does indeed have a bipod) with a 30-round
magazine in place of the usual drum mag? I am having a problem getting
around the whole sniper-with-M21 thing; I had a sniper-type attend a school
with me way back in 1995-96, and I can rememeber his telling me they had
already replaced the M-21 with the M-24 in his ARNG light infantry battalion
(and it was not an "enhanced brigade" unit, either, so their priority of
fill would have been about the same as the rest of the Guard units).

Brooks

Dave