Lowest Cost GPS IFR system?

I'm currently flying VFR in a vfr equipped plane. What would be the lowest
cost GPS based instrument system I could install and be legal for IFR
flying?

I looked through the last six months of this newsgroup, but didn't see a FAQ
or the answer to the above, so I hope it won't be something that was just
hashed out.

thanks,
tom pettit

tom pettit tompetatpeak wrote:
I'm currently flying VFR in a vfr equipped plane. What would be the lowest
cost GPS based instrument system I could install and be legal for IFR
flying?

Maybe something in the Apollo GX50/55/60/65 series? You'll find, though, that
the cost of installation is a big part of making it IFR, so if you're going to
spend a lot on installation, it seems a shame to waste it on a cheap unit.

Dave Butler wrote On 11/18/05 13:57,:
tom pettit tompetatpeak wrote:

I'm currently flying VFR in a vfr equipped plane. What would be the lowest
cost GPS based instrument system I could install and be legal for IFR
flying?


Maybe something in the Apollo GX50/55/60/65 series? You'll find, though, that
the cost of installation is a big part of making it IFR, so if you're going to
spend a lot on installation, it seems a shame to waste it on a cheap unit.

I went through this calculation way back in 2000 or so. I even had the advantage
of having a loran that would have had an upgradable pinout to the Apollo.
I went 430 and am happy with that decision. I doubt it would have saved any
real money in any case.

Originally Posted by tom pettit

I'm currently flying VFR in a vfr equipped plane. What would be the lowest
cost GPS based instrument system I could install and be legal for IFR
flying?

I looked through the last six months of this newsgroup, but didn't see a FAQ
or the answer to the above, so I hope it won't be something that was just
hashed out.

thanks,
tom pettit

i bought a garmin 155 TSO ifr certified for $1000 on e-bay with certs, and installed it in my plane - an annunciator to link it to my HSI cost another ~$550 or so. i then got an LSTC for that unit from a DAR for $1000. with installation it ended up costing around $4,000.

the king 90B (or 89B) comes with a generic STC - so you can save yourself the cost of the LSTC. there's usually a few of those for sale on e-bay as well.

an IFR certified installation probably can't be done much under $3,500 by the time you add labour, paperwork, and required accessories such as a CDI or annunciator.

i hope that helps,

francois

On 11/18/2005 13:28, tom pettit tompetatpeak wrote:

I'm currently flying VFR in a vfr equipped plane. What would be the lowest
cost GPS based instrument system I could install and be legal for IFR
flying?

I looked through the last six months of this newsgroup, but didn't see a FAQ
or the answer to the above, so I hope it won't be something that was just
hashed out.

thanks,
tom pettit



Keep in mind that it takes a specific unit (a TSO one forty something
rather than the TSO 129... I'm not sure I have those number correct) for
the GPS unit to be used as the sole means of IFR navigation.

I mention this, because you said your plane is not currently IFR
capable. In order to use one of the TSO 129 certified GPS units for
IFR flight, the plane must still have the navigation equipment on
board for the ground based navigation aids along the route of flight.

Does any of this apply to you?

If not, sorry if I misunderstood your situation.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

I don't currently have any navigation equipment. I was hoping that a
single, certified, gps unit could be used as primary, with an uncertified
unit as back up. I was hoping I didn't need anything else. Reading the
FARS it isn't very specific, or more likely, I just don't know enough about
this stuff yet.
thanks,
tom

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 11/18/2005 13:28, tom pettit tompetatpeak wrote:

I'm currently flying VFR in a vfr equipped plane. What would be the
lowest cost GPS based instrument system I could install and be legal for
IFR flying?

I looked through the last six months of this newsgroup, but didn't see a
FAQ or the answer to the above, so I hope it won't be something that was
just hashed out.

thanks,
tom pettit

Keep in mind that it takes a specific unit (a TSO one forty something
rather than the TSO 129... I'm not sure I have those number correct) for
the GPS unit to be used as the sole means of IFR navigation.

I mention this, because you said your plane is not currently IFR
capable. In order to use one of the TSO 129 certified GPS units for
IFR flight, the plane must still have the navigation equipment on
board for the ground based navigation aids along the route of flight.

Does any of this apply to you?

If not, sorry if I misunderstood your situation.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

tom pettit tompetatpeak wrote:

I don't currently have any navigation equipment. I was hoping that a
single, certified, gps unit could be used as primary, with an uncertified
unit as back up. I was hoping I didn't need anything else. Reading the
FARS it isn't very specific, or more likely, I just don't know enough about
this stuff yet.

Any real IFR work without a navcomm isn't practical.

On 11/18/2005 3:43 PM, tom pettit tompetatpeak wrote:
I don't currently have any navigation equipment. I was hoping that a
single, certified, gps unit could be used as primary, with an uncertified
unit as back up. I was hoping I didn't need anything else. Reading the
FARS it isn't very specific, or more likely, I just don't know enough about
this stuff yet.
thanks,
tom

Well, start with FAR 91.205. Specifically, 91.205 (d), and
91.205 (d) (2), where it state:

"...navigational equipment appropriate to the ground
facilities to be used".

Then, have a look at the AIM, in the section on Navigational Aids (section
1), specifically, 1-1-19 (d) (1), which talks about Authorization to conduct
any GPS operation under IFR, and later it talks about the requirements
for alternate navigation equipment.


Basically, what this all boils down to, is this: If you have a
IFR-certified GPS system (TSO-129 certified), like the Garmin
GNS 430, you can use it for IFR operations, but the plane needs
to be equipped with the typical IFR navigation radios anyway.

There are some exceptions, but this should get you thinking in the
right direction. I would expect that the GPS systems that can be
used without any other nav equipment on board would be more expensive
than a TSO-129 system + standard nav gear anyway.

I hope this helps,


"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 11/18/2005 13:28, tom pettit tompetatpeak wrote:

I'm currently flying VFR in a vfr equipped plane. What would be the
lowest cost GPS based instrument system I could install and be legal for
IFR flying?

I looked through the last six months of this newsgroup, but didn't see a
FAQ or the answer to the above, so I hope it won't be something that was
just hashed out.

thanks,
tom pettit

Keep in mind that it takes a specific unit (a TSO one forty something
rather than the TSO 129... I'm not sure I have those number correct) for
the GPS unit to be used as the sole means of IFR navigation.

I mention this, because you said your plane is not currently IFR
capable. In order to use one of the TSO 129 certified GPS units for
IFR flight, the plane must still have the navigation equipment on
board for the ground based navigation aids along the route of flight.

Does any of this apply to you?

If not, sorry if I misunderstood your situation.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA




--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

So how come I can't just use the gps alone? It seems like it is much more
flexible, and then I wouldn't be as dependent on what ground based stuff was
available.
tom

Basically, what this all boils down to, is this: If you have a
IFR-certified GPS system (TSO-129 certified), like the Garmin
GNS 430, you can use it for IFR operations, but the plane needs
to be equipped with the typical IFR navigation radios anyway.

Because a GPS failure or outage can affect an entire REGION, while if a
single ground based navaid goes on the fritz, other stuff nearby will
likely still work.

Truth is, right now, the best approach minimums are with ground based
ILS equipment. Unless you have baro-VNAV capability (which is not in the
cheaper GPS equipment) the GPS approach may leave you in the clouds
while the "antiquated" precision approach equipment can get you to 200
feet and a mile.

Get some instrument training.. not the whole rating.. but some.. and see
what is out there. (I am presuming you dont have one, but that is just a
hunch)

Also, if you dont have a rating yet, and plan to train in your own
plane, you will need to be equipped for the checkride to perform 1 type
of precision approach and 2 types of non-precision approaches (unless
things have changed and I missed the memo). Having a "cheap ifr GPS" may
not even have approach capability. Those that currently do are likely
only LNAV (no glideslope, thus non-precision approach). Unless you have
a Precision Approach Radar site, or a VNAV (baro aided or WAAS) you will
need an ILS to meet the checkride requirements in that plane


Dave

tom pettit peak wrote:
So how come I can't just use the gps alone? It seems like it is much more
flexible, and then I wouldn't be as dependent on what ground based stuff was
available.
tom


Basically, what this all boils down to, is this: If you have a
IFR-certified GPS system (TSO-129 certified), like the Garmin
GNS 430, you can use it for IFR operations, but the plane needs
to be equipped with the typical IFR navigation radios anyway.