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China's stealth jet -J-20



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 7th 11, 05:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
mike
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Posts: 43
Default China's stealth jet -J-20

http://www.washingtontimes.com Inside the Ring
news.google.com

China's stealth jet

The Pentagon is scrambling to explain what appears to be an
intelligence failure after Internet photos made public recently showed
a faster-than-estimated advance of China's new fifth-generation
warplane.

U.S. intelligence estimates previously concluded the jet, dubbed the
J-20, will not be deployed until 2020.

Vice Adm. David Dorsett, director of Naval Intelligence, told a group
of defense reporters on Wednesday that the new Chinese fighter program
was not a surprise, but "the speed at which they are making progress …
we underestimated."

"Across a broad array of weapons systems, they are making progress,"
the three-star admiral said.

Progress on the J-20 is among several other Chinese military
developments that U.S. intelligence agencies have been accused of
missing over the past decade. Others include the failure to detect a
new class of Chinese submarine called the Yuan and shortcomings
related to Beijing's long-range cruise missiles and a new anti-ship
ballistic missile.

Pentagon spokesman Marine Col. Dave Lapan confirmed to Inside the Ring
that recent photos of a new Chinese jet show "taxiing tests" on a
prototype aircraft apparently photographed by people who saw it pass
by.

"This is evidence that a fifth-generation fighter program is
proceeding," Col. Lapan said.

"However, progress appears to be uneven: Open-source reports show that
China has been seeking jet engines for its fourth-generation fighter
from Russia, indicating that they are still encountering some
difficulties in working toward fifth-generation capabilities," he
said.

The faster development of the J-20 was first discussed by Chinese Gen.
He Weirong, deputy commander of the Chinese air force last year. He
predicted deployment as earlier as 2017.

The jet is expected to rival the U.S. F-22 superfighter whose
production was canceled by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates after 187
jets were built. In scrapping the F-22, Mr. Gates stated publicly that
one reason for his decision was that the Chinese would not deploy a
comparable jet until 2020, thus more F-35 jets would be built instead
of the more capable F-22.

Richard Fisher, a military analyst with the International Assessment
and Strategy Center who was among the first to spot the J-20 photos
months ago, said the aircraft is manufactured by the Chengdu Aircraft
Co.

"Chengdu's goal is to beat the F-22 and then build their own F-35 when
the 18-ton thrust engine is ready. It is a full challenge to the U.S.
strategy for air power," Mr. Fisher said.

Both the George W. Bush and Obama administrations are to blame for not
continuing production of the F-22, which is needed if there is ever a
conflict with China over Taiwan, he said.

"Absent a better combat aircraft, this constitutes one of the most
serious U.S. intelligence and leadership failures since the end of the
Cold War," Mr. Fisher said.

Mr. Fisher said the images of the jet reveal that China is advancing
rapidly toward fielding a credible and competitive fifth-generation
fighter. The photos show a large fighter with radar-evading stealth
features, an advanced electronically scanned array (AESA) radar and
"supercruise" — the ability to fly at supersonic speed for long
distances using less fuel, he said.

"With refueling, this fighter can carry the fight out to Guam," Mr.
Fisher said.

As for the Pentagon's claim that the Chinese are having problems
developing an advanced engine for the jet, Mr. Fisher said China is
ground-testing a new, more powerful jet engine and, as a result, could
deploy the new jet by 2017.

"If the United States wishes to remain an Asian power capable of
deterring Chinese aggression, or preventing future generations from
becoming victims of China's dictates, it is essential that an improved
version of the F-22 be put into crash development, as well as putting
a sixth-generation fighter into formal development," Mr. Fisher said.
  #2  
Old January 7th 11, 11:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Keith Willshaw[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default China's stealth jet -J-20


"Ray O'Hara" wrote in message
...




No, I don't think that. I'm pretty sure the J-20 program exists, because
credible people say so. As to whether the program will produce some
quantities of very capable flying fighters in the '20's, I consider it
unrealistic to assess the Chinese as being technologically primitive, so
I give them 50% chance of doing so. I suspect you rate the chances of
J-20 success as 0% for the rest of the 21st century.

AHS


the OP was talking as if it already exists,
you are putting your spin on what he said ands what I said.

when they produce the protype get back to me.
lots of projects exist, some even come to fruition.
but as they say. don't count your chickens until they hatch.


On of the problems when dealing with a socity like China
is that its hard to know when they have produced a
prototype. They tend to look less tolerantly on plane
spotters than western natons.

Keith


  #3  
Old January 8th 11, 03:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
John Szalay[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 364
Default China's stealth jet -J-20

Kerryn Offord wrote in

Didn't the original research for stealth come out of Russia (or at
least was done by Russian mathematicians...


In a-round-about way,

According to Ben Rich's book, the original formulas were from a scottish
physicist James Maxwell,developed a century ago, later refined by a german
electromagnetics expert Arnold Sommerfeld, then put in a paper by a
russian radio engineer scientist named Pyotr Ufimtsev ,paper was called
"Method of edge waves in the physical theory of diffraction"
that paper was ignored for 9 years until translated and discovered
by a Skunk Works mathemation named Denys Overholser.
once he understood the theory, stealth came into being.

REF:
Skunk Works" by Ben Rich & Leo Janos.
page 19

IMHO:
One Hellofa read, well worth having on your book shelf.
  #4  
Old January 8th 11, 03:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Dennis[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default China's stealth jet -J-20

Mike wrote:

http://www.washingtontimes.com Inside the Ring
news.google.com

China's stealth jet

The Pentagon is scrambling to explain what appears to be an
intelligence failure after Internet photos made public recently showed
a faster-than-estimated advance of China's new fifth-generation
warplane.


Yes, but does it work at all???

U.S. intelligence estimates previously concluded the jet, dubbed the
J-20, will not be deployed until 2020.


Which is a while yet.

Dennis
  #5  
Old January 8th 11, 05:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Kerryn Offord[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default China's stealth jet -J-20

On 1/8/2011 3:40 PM, John Szalay wrote:
Kerryn wrote in

Didn't the original research for stealth come out of Russia (or at
least was done by Russian mathematicians...


In a-round-about way,

According to Ben Rich's book, the original formulas were from a scottish
physicist James Maxwell,developed a century ago, later refined by a german
electromagnetics expert Arnold Sommerfeld, then put in a paper by a
russian radio engineer scientist named Pyotr Ufimtsev ,paper was called
"Method of edge waves in the physical theory of diffraction"
that paper was ignored for 9 years until translated and discovered
by a Skunk Works mathemation named Denys Overholser.
once he understood the theory, stealth came into being.

REF:
Skunk Works" by Ben Rich& Leo Janos.
page 19

IMHO:
One Hellofa read, well worth having on your book shelf.



That's sort of what I remember reading..


  #6  
Old January 8th 11, 05:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Kerryn Offord[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default China's stealth jet -J-20

On 1/8/2011 3:51 PM, Dennis wrote:
Mike wrote:

http://www.washingtontimes.com Inside the Ring
news.google.com

China's stealth jet

The Pentagon is scrambling to explain what appears to be an
intelligence failure after Internet photos made public recently showed
a faster-than-estimated advance of China's new fifth-generation
warplane.


Yes, but does it work at all???

U.S. intelligence estimates previously concluded the jet, dubbed the
J-20, will not be deployed until 2020.


Which is a while yet.

Dennis


.... how long after the F-22 first flew before it was deployed?
  #7  
Old January 8th 11, 07:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Paul A. Suhler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default China's stealth jet -J-20

On 1/8/2011 3:40 PM, John Szalay wrote:
Kerryn wrote in

Didn't the original research for stealth come out of Russia (or at
least was done by Russian mathematicians...


In a-round-about way,

According to Ben Rich's book, the original formulas were from a scottish
physicist James Maxwell,developed a century ago, later refined by a german
electromagnetics expert Arnold Sommerfeld, then put in a paper by a
russian radio engineer scientist named Pyotr Ufimtsev ,paper was called
"Method of edge waves in the physical theory of diffraction"
that paper was ignored for 9 years until translated and discovered
by a Skunk Works mathemation named Denys Overholser.
once he understood the theory, stealth came into being.

REF:
Skunk Works" by Ben Rich& Leo Janos.
page 19

IMHO:
One Hellofa read, well worth having on your book shelf.


Check out Ed Lovick's "Radar Man: A Personal History
of Stealth." Ed invented some of the original techniques
during the work on the A-12. It predates the computational
work based on Ufimtsev's paper. His is -- as far as I know --
only the third memoir by a Skunk Worker.


Ed helped me a good bit with my book, "From RAINBOW to GUSTO."

Paul
  #8  
Old January 11th 11, 03:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Peter Stickney[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default China's stealth jet -J-20

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 22:26:49 -0800, Paul A. Suhler wrote:

On 1/8/2011 3:40 PM, John Szalay wrote:
Kerryn wrote in

Didn't the original research for stealth come out of Russia (or at
least was done by Russian mathematicians...


In a-round-about way,

According to Ben Rich's book, the original formulas were from a
scottish physicist James Maxwell,developed a century ago, later
refined by a german electromagnetics expert Arnold Sommerfeld, then put
in a paper by a russian radio engineer scientist named Pyotr
Ufimtsev ,paper was called "Method of edge waves in the physical theory
of diffraction" that paper was ignored for 9 years until translated and
discovered by a Skunk Works mathemation named Denys Overholser. once he
understood the theory, stealth came into being.

REF:
Skunk Works" by Ben Rich& Leo Janos. page 19

IMHO:
One Hellofa read, well worth having on your book shelf.


Check out Ed Lovick's "Radar Man: A Personal History of Stealth." Ed
invented some of the original techniques during the work on the A-12.
It predates the computational work based on Ufimtsev's paper. His is --
as far as I know -- only the third memoir by a Skunk Worker.


There were other pre-Blackbird stealth efforts as well. the
Wright Air Development Center covered a T-33 in RAM in the
mid-50s, and achieved significant signature reduction.

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system
  #9  
Old January 11th 11, 03:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Jim Wilkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default China's stealth jet -J-20

On Jan 7, 9:40*pm, John Szalay john.szalay.at.att.net wrote:
Kerryn Offord wrote in

Didn't the original research for stealth come out of Russia (or at
least was done by Russian mathematicians...


In a-round-about way,

According to Ben Rich's book, the original formulas were from a scottish
physicist James Maxwell,developed a century *ago, later refined by a german
electromagnetics expert Arnold Sommerfeld, then put in a paper *by a
russian radio engineer scientist *named *Pyotr Ufimtsev ,paper was called *
"Method of edge waves in the physical theory of diffraction"
that paper was ignored for 9 years until translated and discovered
by a Skunk Works mathemation named Denys Overholser.
once he understood the theory, *stealth came into being.

*REF:
Skunk Works" *by Ben Rich & Leo Janos.
page 19


Oliver Heaviside's work on transmission line theory clearly showed
what was needed to absorb radar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Heaviside

  #10  
Old January 11th 11, 06:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default China's stealth jet -J-20

On Jan 7, 2:59*pm, "Keith Willshaw" wrote:

On of the problems when dealing with a socity like China
is that its hard to know when they have produced a
prototype. They tend to look less tolerantly on plane
spotters than western natons.


Keith, this ignorant civilian would like to know if it is possible for
the Chinese
to have a good understanding of what is needed to develop this
aircraft fully
as a result of stealing the information (i.e., hacking military
computers)?

Cheers . . . J.
 




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