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#1
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Cherokee 180 from Bay Area to Bishop (KBIH) ?
I'm thinking of taking myself and three others (littlish people) to
Bishop next weekend in a Cherokee 180. I've limited mountain flying experience, but have had an intructor checkout for it and have read a few books on the subject. My assessment is that the aircraft's service ceiling (13,700, I believe) and loading (about 200 lb under gross by my first-swag calculations) will get us over the highest terrain (looks to be less than 11,500 if I carefuly fly the pass near KMMH) with my personal minimum of 2000 AGL over mtns. I won't do the trip if there appears to be significant wind blowing across the range. To me, this says this flight is possible. It's not all the margin in the world, but it's adequate. I'd prefer to be higher, and maybe the aircraft will get us there, but it seems like it'd be high enough. I'd like to hear someone else's ideas, though. I'm in the "Killing Zone," you know. (260 hrs, PP-ASEL, IR) PS -- plan is to do this flight early am, arrive BIH 9-10. thanks, Dave Jacobowitz jacobowitz73 -at- yahoo -dot- come |
#2
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Go over 80 to Reno and down 395 to Bishop.
Please don't use abbrvtns for airports when the rest of us just have to look them up. I wouldn't take Tioga pass over the Sierra in a single engine aircraft for all the avgas in Texas. Jim (looks to be less -than 11,500 if I carefuly fly the pass near KMMH) Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor http://www.rst-engr.com |
#3
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#5
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I've flown over Mammoth enroute to Oakland on a cross country from the
Washington, DC area. I crossed the Sierras near Mammoth at 15,000 feet, and had no desire to do it lower. That area is a relatively high point in the Sierras -- both north and south are lower terrain. Why not cross at Tahoe and head south? It would still be a lot faster than driving. There is a lot to be said for a robust route -- one that is suable under a variety of weather conditions and that does not require O2. A longer but even easier route would be to head south and cross around Palmdale. Paul |
#6
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Thanks, everyone for the advice. I will rethink my route. I will look
at a route that crosses over near Tahoe and then heads down on the eastern side. Flying the passes sounded like fun, but perhaps I'll try it sometime in a more capable aircraft not loaded to max gross, and perhaps with an O2 system (which I was hoping not to have to invest in for this trip) -- dave j (Paul Hamilton) wrote in message . com... I've flown over Mammoth enroute to Oakland on a cross country from the Washington, DC area. I crossed the Sierras near Mammoth at 15,000 feet, and had no desire to do it lower. That area is a relatively high point in the Sierras -- both north and south are lower terrain. Why not cross at Tahoe and head south? It would still be a lot faster than driving. There is a lot to be said for a robust route -- one that is suable under a variety of weather conditions and that does not require O2. A longer but even easier route would be to head south and cross around Palmdale. Paul |
#7
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The pass just south of Tioga is beautiful, or Tioga itself.
The nice thing is that if you do have an engine problem, Tuolomine is right down there. In fact you'd be in better shape just there than earlier in the flight over the mountains, or on the other routes suggested. (Landing on I-80? Well, maybe). The first time I did it it almost literally took my breath away as suddenly the ground disappears from under you. I recommend 13500, which will keep you 2000 AGL and above (though not much) the surrounding peaks. Obviously not to be done if there's significant wind (I hit a rotor once, and while it was instructive I'm not in a big hurry to do it again). John "Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message om... I'm thinking of taking myself and three others (littlish people) to Bishop next weekend in a Cherokee 180. I've limited mountain flying experience, but have had an intructor checkout for it and have read a few books on the subject. My assessment is that the aircraft's service ceiling (13,700, I believe) and loading (about 200 lb under gross by my first-swag calculations) will get us over the highest terrain (looks to be less than 11,500 if I carefuly fly the pass near KMMH) with my personal minimum of 2000 AGL over mtns. I won't do the trip if there appears to be significant wind blowing across the range. To me, this says this flight is possible. It's not all the margin in the world, but it's adequate. I'd prefer to be higher, and maybe the aircraft will get us there, but it seems like it'd be high enough. I'd like to hear someone else's ideas, though. I'm in the "Killing Zone," you know. (260 hrs, PP-ASEL, IR) PS -- plan is to do this flight early am, arrive BIH 9-10. thanks, Dave Jacobowitz jacobowitz73 -at- yahoo -dot- come |
#8
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Argh!!! This is starting to drive me crazy. I cannot for the life of
me figure out how I want to do this flight. Tioga pass or nearby is very tempting. It looks spectacular, and the route is nearly as short as possible. ... but 13.5k in a very nearly max gross PA28-180... I dunno. Could be fine. I'll know when I'm in the air. Also, I have no O2 system. Did you go with an oxygen system? Going up to 13500, I'm legal for up to 30 minutes, but is it smart? What's killing me is how lame the other options a 1. take I80, I guess, all the way to Reno, then south to KBIH. It's getting close to a 3 hr trip that way. 2. up to TVL, then southeast through "Luther Pass," then east to interstate 395 and down. Longer, and not much lower. 3. wimp-out: almost to Bakersfield, then over much lower terrain. Much, much, much longer. Probably would do fuel/bio stop on that one. Of course, nobody on this group is going to tell me what to do, and that's how it should be. I need to make up my own mind. But more info is certainly better. I wish I had some flight planning software with terrain in it. It's actually kind of tricky to see what flying a pass will really be like by looking at a sectional. -- dave j -- "John Harper" wrote in message news:1087281711.160331@sj-nntpcache-3... The pass just south of Tioga is beautiful, or Tioga itself. The nice thing is that if you do have an engine problem, Tuolomine is right down there. In fact you'd be in better shape just there than earlier in the flight over the mountains, or on the other routes suggested. (Landing on I-80? Well, maybe). The first time I did it it almost literally took my breath away as suddenly the ground disappears from under you. I recommend 13500, which will keep you 2000 AGL and above (though not much) the surrounding peaks. Obviously not to be done if there's significant wind (I hit a rotor once, and while it was instructive I'm not in a big hurry to do it again). John "Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message om... I'm thinking of taking myself and three others (littlish people) to Bishop next weekend in a Cherokee 180. I've limited mountain flying experience, but have had an intructor checkout for it and have read a few books on the subject. My assessment is that the aircraft's service ceiling (13,700, I believe) and loading (about 200 lb under gross by my first-swag calculations) will get us over the highest terrain (looks to be less than 11,500 if I carefuly fly the pass near KMMH) with my personal minimum of 2000 AGL over mtns. I won't do the trip if there appears to be significant wind blowing across the range. To me, this says this flight is possible. It's not all the margin in the world, but it's adequate. I'd prefer to be higher, and maybe the aircraft will get us there, but it seems like it'd be high enough. I'd like to hear someone else's ideas, though. I'm in the "Killing Zone," you know. (260 hrs, PP-ASEL, IR) PS -- plan is to do this flight early am, arrive BIH 9-10. thanks, Dave Jacobowitz jacobowitz73 -at- yahoo -dot- come |
#9
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Dave,
Sorry I didn't post earlier; I thought someone would mention my favorite route, but I guess not! I fly my Cardinal RG regularly between Palo Alto and Mammoth, at 11,500. The easiest way is to go over Mammoth Pass. From Palo Alto it's 080 degrees (more or less) to the bottom of the upper San Joaquin River drainage; on the sectional you can see V230 from Friant goes along this route. It is really no problem. Once you see Mammoth Mountain, you can go either immediately to the right (Mammoth Pass) or the left (Minaret Summit); I generally go to the left to avoid overflying the town. On the way, when you are talking with Oakland Center (121.25 on the east side of the Central Valley, south of Yosemite), they will ask you if you are familiar with the terrain. If you say no, they will say, "in event of lost communication, consider radar services terminated, frequency change will be approved." You can make their lives easier by saying that you're familiar with the terrain and the lost comm procedure. Bishop can be *really* hot; even when the airport elevation is only 4120, density altitude can be much higher. Have fun! Bruce -- Bruce Horn, Chief Technical Officer, Marketocracy, Inc. |
#10
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In your original post, you required a 2,000 foot comfort zone over the
ridge. Unless you are willing to relax that requirement some, take the I-80 route to Reno. Age and physical condition play a large role in hypoxia onset -- 13.5K is over my personal limit without supplemental O2. If you are willing to lower your crossing altitude, look for Mammoth Pass, just north of KBIH. Suggestion -- In the AM hours, be prepared for the katabatic air flow down the east face of the Sierra. On the way east ride it down and don't try to hold altitude. Going west... well, climb high and approach the ridge on a 45-degree angle prepared to turn away. "Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message om... Argh!!! This is starting to drive me crazy. I cannot for the life of me figure out how I want to do this flight. |
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