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Pentagon 'three-day blitz' plan for attacking Iran



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 7th 07, 11:01 PM posted to us.military.army,us.military,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Colin Campbell[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Pentagon 'three-day blitz' plan for attacking Iran

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:22:17 -0700, Tankfixer
wrote:

In article [email protected],
mumbled

"La N" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , Colin Campbell
writes
On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:14:38 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

In message , Colin Campbell
writes
Can you imagine how many generals would be out of a job if a crisis
occurred somewhere and the president asked to be briefed on his
military options - and the generals gave him a 'deer in the
headlights' look?

Isn't that what happened when Clinton wanted options for hitting
bin-Laden in Afghanistan?

No.

The problem was that by the time the basketball game ended their
chance to get him had passed.

They had options, but when they had the chance - they could not pry
Clinton away from the TV set.

You mean your time-sensitive targeting is entirely dependent on your
President's personal habits?

That is not a very robust solution...


Actually, the critical reader would glean that all the above suggests is
that Colin Campbell hates Bill Clinton. One would have hoped for a more
intelligent reasoned response.



Anyway, further to this ... wasn't that the time when Clinton's detractors
were screaming "wag the dog"??? IOW they were claiming that he was looking
at military options to detract from the Paula Jones issue.


If you don't think it was relevant then why bring it up ?


The sad thing is that myself and militia broke up over two years ago
and she still has not gotten over it.



--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
Ads
  #22  
Old September 7th 07, 11:40 PM posted to us.military.army,us.military,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Paul J. Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Pentagon 'three-day blitz' plan for attacking Iran

In message , Bill Kambic
writes
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:27:44 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
What, all military decisions require on-the-spot signoff by the
Commander in Chief?


Simply put, yes.


So if PFC Leroy-Joe Rodriguez, doing top cover for a vehicle patrol in
Sadr City, sees someone pointing an RPG at him he has to contact
Washington and ask for Presidential authorisation before he's allowed to
fire his weapon?

That's not the way we do business, and I don't *think* it's how the US
does business, but I could be wrong.

(Apart from anything else, the recent unfortunate incident in
Afghanistan - several UK KIA from a US F-15's ordnance - gets a nasty
political dimension if you're seriously telling me that the President of
the United States personally signed off on the decision to release that
weapon. I'm not sure that you are.)

Except that this scenario describes enough surveillance and intelligence
to have a decent confidence of bin-Laden's whereabouts and movement, and
sufficient military assets in place to make a credible effort at killing
him.

All that effort and nobody sorted out delegation?


There's no need to sort out anything. The chain of command is clear.


No, it isn't, in this case. Is this an operation to locate, confirm and
eradicate Osama bin-Laden or not?

Did nobody stop to consider "what if the President is not immediately
available?" If WJC won't look away from his TV, how about the
Vice-President? Is the President the absolute one-and-only person able
to make this decision, and must it be left this late when the
opportunity is fleeting?

If this mission is so important, why is nobody trying to make it happen?

It definitely smacks of an after-the-fact wah rather than a credible
event, to be blunt.

I rather hope not - we prefer "Mission Command" to "Do absolutely
nothing without Downing Street's approval in quadruplicate".


Well, I too sometimes prefer to leave decisions to the professionals.
But that carries with it it's own set of problems. To call Clinton
Era military policy "risk adverse" would be to make one othe most
profound understatements of all time. But our Constitution sets out
the President as CinC and we take an oath to uphold that Constitution
and to obey the orders of said President (even if he's lying, craven,
*******'s whoreson).


Which brings its own set of problems: wasn't this the period where
Clinton was being warned that members of his own military intended to
murder him given the chance? (Some Southern senator warning him off
visiting bases in the region, IIRC)

When the military is as open in expressing its contempt and disdain for
its elected leader as that, are you *really* surprised that you don't
occupy a close place in his heart or high regard in his mind?

And when somebody DOES do as you suggest we have something like
Iran-Contra. No matter how this might be viewed in other quarters it
was a truly renegade operation in violation of Federal law.


Then that suggests Iran-Contra was a bad move, correct? Not that it's
hard to spot: just what suggested that the mad mullahs of Tehran would
be grateful, helpful or friendly allies, especially since the US was
merely replenishing the arms stocks they were using against Iraq, who we
were vigorously supporting as our bastion against the expansion of
radical Shi'a Islam in the region... (it's a good "what were they
thinking?" question with no good answer yet) Op PREYING MANTIS was
textbook naval warfare and much admired, but hardly indicative of
friendly trusting relations between the US and the Iranians - so why
were you helping them tool up and rearm?


But I'd offer this scenario. Let's assume Colin is correct, and that
having committed serious resources to finding, identifying and
confirming Osama bin-Laden, he could suddenly be killed with a word on
the radio, a push of the button, pick your movie cliche, though the
opportunity will be short. The President refuses to turn away from his
basketball game, contemptuously dismisses his uniformed lackeys when
they approach him, sets all that work at naught.

Now, me? I'd say "take the shot" and explain to the President that I'd
verbally briefed him about this, that we would get one chance, and that
I could offer him a veto over the final step, and I'd *offered* him that
veto and he'd refused it so I was left to assume his consent and act
accordingly... and so it goes. But that's hindsight from a different
country, and I'm a good enough engineer to get another job if I need
one: this gives me a certain confidence in challenging bull**** when I
see it

I'm sadly more confident that the UK response - and the US probably has
similar problems - ties up in knots about demanding collateral damage
prediction, legal signoff, and other grief to defend against allegations
of dropping baby-seeking cluster bombs with depleted-uranium
napalm-filled warheads on innocent civilians... but my cynicism usually
overrides my politics. (And you can do a lot of that planning in
advance, even if it does keep the staff busy - you shouldn't have joined
if you can't take a joke. Good planning and a glum disposition can
prepare you for a lot.)

We can argue the wisdom of tying ourselves into legal knots, but the
legality of the system is beyond question.


From here, it looks like decisions normally delegated down as far as
aircraft cockpits are suddenly being booted up to the White House. At
best it sounds like an excuse, at worst it looks like invention or even
insubordination.

Mileage may vary, of course, and I'm just amazed to find myself
defending Bill Clinton.

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk
  #23  
Old September 7th 07, 11:49 PM posted to us.military.army,us.military,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Paul J. Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Pentagon 'three-day blitz' plan for attacking Iran

In message , Colin Campbell
writes
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:27:44 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
What, all military decisions require on-the-spot signoff by the
Commander in Chief?


All of the ones where he has not delegated the authority.


So why not get him to delegate the authority here, given that this is a
fleeting target and the time taken to beg for permission to fire may be
enough to let bin-Laden escape?

Or is it easier to back off, avoid a difficult mission and then blame
everything on that nasty President?

Except that this scenario describes enough surveillance and intelligence
to have a decent confidence of bin-Laden's whereabouts and movement, and
sufficient military assets in place to make a credible effort at killing
him.

All that effort and nobody sorted out delegation?


The military does what the President says. If the President refused
to delegate that sort of decision, then the military has to abide by
that decision.


The phrase "mute insubordination" comes to mind.

"We did exactly what we were told. Yes, we knew it would fail and it was
silly. No, we didn't tell the boss, we don't like the boss. So it's all
his fault."

When the CinC is wrong, part of the job is to tell him so. No, it's not
easy.

This all boils down to the fact that the military follows the polices
set by the President. If he has stated that he has to give approval
for certain types of operations then the military has to wait on his
decision.


Wah.

Did nobody - did *not one person* - have the balls to point out that
this was a bad idea against a fleeting target?

What we have here is an example of why military morale was so poor
during the Clinton years.


I'm not surprised. I'd hate to serve in a military more interested in
scoring political points off its Commander in Chief, than in doing its
job.

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk
  #24  
Old September 8th 07, 12:27 AM posted to us.military.army,us.military,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Bill Kambic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Pentagon 'three-day blitz' plan for attacking Iran

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 23:40:01 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

In message , Bill Kambic
writes
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:27:44 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
What, all military decisions require on-the-spot signoff by the
Commander in Chief?


Simply put, yes.


So if PFC Leroy-Joe Rodriguez, doing top cover for a vehicle patrol in
Sadr City, sees someone pointing an RPG at him he has to contact
Washington and ask for Presidential authorisation before he's allowed to
fire his weapon?


Now you're being silly. The PFC in question will act IAW with his
Rules of Engagement. THOSE were promulgated by higher authority and
could have come straight from the White House.

That's not the way we do business, and I don't *think* it's how the US
does business, but I could be wrong.


Yes, in this case you are.

(Apart from anything else, the recent unfortunate incident in
Afghanistan - several UK KIA from a US F-15's ordnance - gets a nasty
political dimension if you're seriously telling me that the President of
the United States personally signed off on the decision to release that
weapon. I'm not sure that you are.)


Again, the pilot of an armed aircraft has rules he operates by. If he
screws up he might have committed a crime; he might have just made a
tragic mistake.

Except that this scenario describes enough surveillance and intelligence
to have a decent confidence of bin-Laden's whereabouts and movement, and
sufficient military assets in place to make a credible effort at killing
him.

All that effort and nobody sorted out delegation?


There's no need to sort out anything. The chain of command is clear.


No, it isn't, in this case. Is this an operation to locate, confirm and
eradicate Osama bin-Laden or not?


If the President (or an officer acting at his direction) says "yes"
then that's the answer.

Did nobody stop to consider "what if the President is not immediately
available?" If WJC won't look away from his TV, how about the
Vice-President? Is the President the absolute one-and-only person able
to make this decision, and must it be left this late when the
opportunity is fleeting?


Somebody might be willing to take the shot (and the responsibility).
If he gets the bad guy with no collateral damage he'll get a medal (on
the time honored military principle that It's Always Easier To Get
Forgiveness Than Permission.

If he kills a bunch of cilvilians and misses the bad guy he'll likely
get court-marialed.

If he gets the bad guy and a bunch of civilians you won't hear many
details until the New York Once Upon A Times get's hold of it.

If this mission is so important, why is nobody trying to make it happen?


I dunno. I'm not in ithat loop.

It definitely smacks of an after-the-fact wah rather than a credible
event, to be blunt.


You might be right.

I rather hope not - we prefer "Mission Command" to "Do absolutely
nothing without Downing Street's approval in quadruplicate".


Well, I too sometimes prefer to leave decisions to the professionals.
But that carries with it it's own set of problems. To call Clinton
Era military policy "risk adverse" would be to make one othe most
profound understatements of all time. But our Constitution sets out
the President as CinC and we take an oath to uphold that Constitution
and to obey the orders of said President (even if he's lying, craven,
*******'s whoreson).


Which brings its own set of problems: wasn't this the period where
Clinton was being warned that members of his own military intended to
murder him given the chance? (Some Southern senator warning him off
visiting bases in the region, IIRC)


I never heard that. Likely it's PR from the DNC.

When the military is as open in expressing its contempt and disdain for
its elected leader as that, are you *really* surprised that you don't
occupy a close place in his heart or high regard in his mind?


Well, I suspect that this has happened before and will happen again.
It's not a question of "love" or even "respect." It's a question of
obedience and honoring an oath.

And when somebody DOES do as you suggest we have something like
Iran-Contra. No matter how this might be viewed in other quarters it
was a truly renegade operation in violation of Federal law.


Then that suggests Iran-Contra was a bad move, correct?


No, Sir, it says it was an unlawful move.

Not that it's
hard to spot: just what suggested that the mad mullahs of Tehran would
be grateful, helpful or friendly allies, especially since the US was
merely replenishing the arms stocks they were using against Iraq, who we
were vigorously supporting as our bastion against the expansion of
radical Shi'a Islam in the region... (it's a good "what were they
thinking?" question with no good answer yet) Op PREYING MANTIS was
textbook naval warfare and much admired, but hardly indicative of
friendly trusting relations between the US and the Iranians - so why
were you helping them tool up and rearm?


But I'd offer this scenario. Let's assume Colin is correct, and that
having committed serious resources to finding, identifying and
confirming Osama bin-Laden, he could suddenly be killed with a word on
the radio, a push of the button, pick your movie cliche, though the
opportunity will be short. The President refuses to turn away from his
basketball game, contemptuously dismisses his uniformed lackeys when
they approach him, sets all that work at naught.

Now, me? I'd say "take the shot" and explain to the President that I'd
verbally briefed him about this, that we would get one chance, and that
I could offer him a veto over the final step, and I'd *offered* him that
veto and he'd refused it so I was left to assume his consent and act
accordingly... and so it goes. But that's hindsight from a different
country, and I'm a good enough engineer to get another job if I need
one: this gives me a certain confidence in challenging bull**** when I
see it


See above for possible outcomes. :-)

I'm sadly more confident that the UK response - and the US probably has
similar problems - ties up in knots about demanding collateral damage
prediction, legal signoff, and other grief to defend against allegations
of dropping baby-seeking cluster bombs with depleted-uranium
napalm-filled warheads on innocent civilians... but my cynicism usually
overrides my politics. (And you can do a lot of that planning in
advance, even if it does keep the staff busy - you shouldn't have joined
if you can't take a joke. Good planning and a glum disposition can
prepare you for a lot.)

We can argue the wisdom of tying ourselves into legal knots, but the
legality of the system is beyond question.


From here, it looks like decisions normally delegated down as far as
aircraft cockpits are suddenly being booted up to the White House. At
best it sounds like an excuse, at worst it looks like invention or even
insubordination.

Mileage may vary, of course, and I'm just amazed to find myself
defending Bill Clinton.


Ever since the invention of the telegraph we've seen what ought to be
"tactical" decisions elevated to "matters of state." It's alleged
that during VietNam the President would sit in bed drinking coffee and
making target selections from lists provided to him. I don't know if
that is true, but I do know that the rules of engagement were not
calculated to lead to a successful air campaign.

At the end of the day we are left with Chairman Mao's observation that
"war is politics by other means." (I've heard that this is not really
original with the Chariman. ;-) ). So if you take a step that's
outside your rules of engagement and pull it off with no adverse
consequences than you'll be a hero; if not you'll be the "goat."


  #25  
Old September 8th 07, 01:39 AM posted to us.military.army,us.military,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Paul J. Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Pentagon 'three-day blitz' plan for attacking Iran

In message , Bill Kambic
writes
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 23:40:01 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
So if PFC Leroy-Joe Rodriguez, doing top cover for a vehicle patrol in
Sadr City, sees someone pointing an RPG at him he has to contact
Washington and ask for Presidential authorisation before he's allowed to
fire his weapon?


Now you're being silly.


No, you're answering my question.

The PFC in question will act IAW with his
Rules of Engagement. THOSE were promulgated by higher authority and
could have come straight from the White House.


So why not in this case?

That's not the way we do business, and I don't *think* it's how the US
does business, but I could be wrong.


Yes, in this case you are.


I *am* wrong? I thought the US was able to delegate the right to open
fire downwards. Am I incorrect?

(Apart from anything else, the recent unfortunate incident in
Afghanistan - several UK KIA from a US F-15's ordnance - gets a nasty
political dimension if you're seriously telling me that the President of
the United States personally signed off on the decision to release that
weapon. I'm not sure that you are.)


Again, the pilot of an armed aircraft has rules he operates by. If he
screws up he might have committed a crime; he might have just made a
tragic mistake.


So we accept that this is another case where it's not compulsory to call
Washington and get Presidential approval for the use of armed force,
correct? Again, the US military demonstrates that it understands
delegation... apart, apparently, from when it chooses not to.

No, it isn't, in this case. Is this an operation to locate, confirm and
eradicate Osama bin-Laden or not?


If the President (or an officer acting at his direction) says "yes"
then that's the answer.


So who is "the officer acting at his discretion"? This tale has the
President and only the President holding everything tight. Did _nobody_
think this was a bad plan? Or was it more important to show up the CinC
than to achieve the mission?

Did nobody stop to consider "what if the President is not immediately
available?" If WJC won't look away from his TV, how about the
Vice-President? Is the President the absolute one-and-only person able
to make this decision, and must it be left this late when the
opportunity is fleeting?


Somebody might be willing to take the shot (and the responsibility).
If he gets the bad guy with no collateral damage he'll get a medal (on
the time honored military principle that It's Always Easier To Get
Forgiveness Than Permission.

If he kills a bunch of cilvilians and misses the bad guy he'll likely
get court-marialed.

If he gets the bad guy and a bunch of civilians you won't hear many
details until the New York Once Upon A Times get's hold of it.


Yet what we have here is a military chain sitting with their thumbs
jammed up their posterior sphincters, wailing that no matter how
high-value the target they can't do a _thing_ until the basketball game
finishes and the President deigns to speak with them again. (While
simultaneously complaining that the President doesn't love and respect
them) There is no alternative, there is no pre-delegation, there is no
"if approver #1 unavailable then speak to #2, if #2 cannot be reached
speak to #3"...

It sounds much more like post-failure arse-covering than a realistic
after-action report. "Gee whiz, we absolutely could have taken out
bin-Laden for sure if only that nasty President had let us..."

If this mission is so important, why is nobody trying to make it happen?


I dunno. I'm not in ithat loop.


Guess. Would *you* make it happen if you were in that loop?

Which brings its own set of problems: wasn't this the period where
Clinton was being warned that members of his own military intended to
murder him given the chance? (Some Southern senator warning him off
visiting bases in the region, IIRC)


I never heard that. Likely it's PR from the DNC.


Political exaggeration on both sides (and I tired quickly of wading
through Google to find the source - if I'm going to defend Slick Willy I
need to save these points) is likely but, I have to say, you could not
find many serving military folks with anything good to say about WJC
from 1995 (when I jumped into Usenet) to when he left office or
thereafter. Doubtless muchly deserved... but it didn't breed confidence
that he was getting good advice.

If the US military is meant to impartially serve its commander-in-chief
then it _really_ failed under Clinton. He may well have deserved it...
but you don't get to pick and choose "this CinC is a nasty piece of work
undeserving of our respect" without triggering a civil war.


When the military is as open in expressing its contempt and disdain for
its elected leader as that, are you *really* surprised that you don't
occupy a close place in his heart or high regard in his mind?


Well, I suspect that this has happened before and will happen again.
It's not a question of "love" or even "respect." It's a question of
obedience and honoring an oath.


Looking in from another country, I see a polarisation and an overt
hatred which leaves me wondering whether that oath was fulfilled. Again,
did "the military" really try to take out bin-Laden? Or was it more
convenient to defer a difficult task that might not be well supported?

Then that suggests Iran-Contra was a bad move, correct?


No, Sir, it says it was an unlawful move.


So what does it gain for the US?

It's a really stupid plan, from the point of view of the RN ships on the
Armilla Patrol trying to get tankers in and out of the Arabian Gulf.
That's my direct involvement (I work with gentlemen who were in the area
at the time and have very strong opinions).

We want Iraq to hold out against Iran's religious fundamentalism...
except that the US is selling serious military hardware to Iran so they
can fight better against Iraq. Just WTF is going on and why are we
sending ships to the Arabian Gulf when there are other jobs for them to
do?

From here, it looks like decisions normally delegated down as far as
aircraft cockpits are suddenly being booted up to the White House. At
best it sounds like an excuse, at worst it looks like invention or even
insubordination.

Mileage may vary, of course, and I'm just amazed to find myself
defending Bill Clinton.


Ever since the invention of the telegraph we've seen what ought to be
"tactical" decisions elevated to "matters of state." It's alleged
that during VietNam the President would sit in bed drinking coffee and
making target selections from lists provided to him. I don't know if
that is true, but I do know that the rules of engagement were not
calculated to lead to a successful air campaign.

At the end of the day we are left with Chairman Mao's observation that
"war is politics by other means." (I've heard that this is not really
original with the Chariman. ;-) ).


Clausewitz, at the very least (it's a little more complex in translation
than that) but probably predates him.

So if you take a step that's
outside your rules of engagement and pull it off with no adverse
consequences than you'll be a hero; if not you'll be the "goat."


Which is kind of my point. Do you want to win? Or do you hate your boss?

If you want to win, then when El Presidente can't be distracted from his
television you fire and plead for forgiveness.

If you want to score political points, you blame El Presidente for
"everything was perfect, perfect I tell you!" and not being allowed to
fire.

The lowliest British Army officer-cadet of the late 1980s was hit with a
scenario where you couldn't ask "the boss" what to do but had to choose
between the explicit orders you had been given, and "commander's intent"
of what he _wanted_ to do. If you discover the facts on the ground have
changed, do you blindly obey outdated orders or do you ask "what would
my Guvnor want me to do if he was here now?"


But you answer my question - it seems nobody was willing to say "the
Boss wants this guy dead, the Boss told us to find him and kill him, the
Boss won't tell us to shoot until the basketball game is over and
that'll be too late... shoot now and we can tell the Boss how well he
did "

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk
  #26  
Old September 8th 07, 04:17 AM posted to us.military.army,us.military,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Colin Campbell[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Pentagon 'three-day blitz' plan for attacking Iran

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 23:49:02 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

In message , Colin Campbell
writes
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:27:44 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
What, all military decisions require on-the-spot signoff by the
Commander in Chief?


All of the ones where he has not delegated the authority.


So why not get him to delegate the authority here, given that this is a
fleeting target and the time taken to beg for permission to fire may be
enough to let bin-Laden escape?


They tried. He refused to delegate the authority.





Or is it easier to back off, avoid a difficult mission and then blame
everything on that nasty President?

Except that this scenario describes enough surveillance and intelligence
to have a decent confidence of bin-Laden's whereabouts and movement, and
sufficient military assets in place to make a credible effort at killing
him.

All that effort and nobody sorted out delegation?


The military does what the President says. If the President refused
to delegate that sort of decision, then the military has to abide by
that decision.


The phrase "mute insubordination" comes to mind.

"We did exactly what we were told. Yes, we knew it would fail and it was
silly. No, we didn't tell the boss, we don't like the boss. So it's all
his fault."

When the CinC is wrong, part of the job is to tell him so. No, it's not
easy.


It is even harder when he refuses to listen.

The fact of the matter is that they did the best they could within the
orders they were given.


This all boils down to the fact that the military follows the polices
set by the President. If he has stated that he has to give approval
for certain types of operations then the military has to wait on his
decision.


Wah.

Did nobody - did *not one person* - have the balls to point out that
this was a bad idea against a fleeting target?


Yes. But it did not do any good.


What we have here is an example of why military morale was so poor
during the Clinton years.


I'm not surprised. I'd hate to serve in a military more interested in
scoring political points off its Commander in Chief, than in doing its
job.


Do you have any factual basis for that accusation?




--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
  #27  
Old September 8th 07, 04:45 AM posted to us.military.army,us.military,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Bill Kambic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Pentagon 'three-day blitz' plan for attacking Iran

On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 01:39:55 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

snipped for brevity

You can "dance" around this question forever and not come up with a
"correct" answer.

If you feel comfortable taking the shot and are willing to take the
responsiblity and consequences (good or bad) that come from it then
good on you. Maybe you'll get a medal and maybe your action will
start a much larger conflagration. Or screw up some other operation.
There are WAY too many possiblities to even consider.

If it's "simplistic" to just follow orders it's equally simplistic to
search for "intent" when an order is clear. And to disregard them is
cometimes called "mutiny."

  #30  
Old September 10th 07, 12:18 PM posted to us.military.army,us.military,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
J a c k
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Pentagon 'three-day blitz' plan for attacking Iran

Bill Kambic wrote:


We can argue the wisdom of tying ourselves into legal knots, but the
legality of the system is beyond question.



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