When to acknowledge ATC

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Ron Natalie wrote:
A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

No clearance is required.


For Class C airspace, 2-way communication is the clearance into
that airspace. No, ATC doesn't ahve to 'clear' you into it, but the
communication is the clearance as is.

No clearance is required. Do you know what CLEARANCE means?

I never said that they will *CLEAR* you into Class C airspace;
but that the 2-way communication *IS* the clearance. Class B is another
story.

If ATC tells you to remain outside a certain class airspace,
you must read that back

I don't have to read back anything.

and remain outside that airspace until he
clears you into it

You will not EVER get a VFR clearance into class C or D airspace.

I never said you would get a 'clearance' into Class C or D. See
above. But if you're checking in:

Norcal Approach Cessna 343CM with you, out of Placerville,
3500, flight following to Marysville.

And you hear:

Cessna 343CM, Norcal Approach, squawk 4206.

There's your clearance through/into Class C. Not that ATC will
*CLEAR* you, but if they respond to your call, and that Approach
controller is operating Class C airspace, their call back to you *IS*
your clearance into or through that Class C airspace. Yes, They will
have you at Radar contact after you squawk the xpdr setting, but that
doesn't require any readback. But you asked about clearance, so there
you have it.

It says nothing about clearances. You're making things up again.

Alternately, for Class B, if you're checking in:

Las Vegas Approach, KingAir 385GT with you, 20 south of BLD,
8500, full stop at Las Vegas McCarran.

And you hear:

KingAir 356GT, Las Vegas Approach, squawk 5133.

You squawk 5133, and later you hear:

King Air 6GT, radar contact 18nm south of BLD, cleared into
Class Bravo Airspace, maintain VFR at or below 8500, Las Vegas
altimeter xx.xx

You then are cleared into Class B.

Read the documents yourself, if you don't believe me. Better
yet, call the ATC when they chastise you for not reading back anything that
tells you to remain outside of a given airspace for a reason.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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Happy Dog wrote:

Where do you fly where ATC doesn't give you the
setting on initial contact?

I can't recall getting one from TYS anytime I've mentioned having listened to
the ATIS.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Happy Dog wrote:

So you're speaking almost exclusively about towers? That I can see. If the
ATIS is good, no need for the altimeter setting. Other than towers, you
should almost always be getting a setting on initial contact.

Uh .... Just where do you fly that has an ATIS and *doesn't* have a tower?

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Happy Dog wrote:
"George Patterson"

The last clearance I got from New York ran something like "November 3162
Kebec, climb to 2500 feet, heading 355, stay west of the river, report at
the Hudson tunnel."

Ask for the clearance. You're in violation without it.

The instruction to climb *was* the clearance.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"George Patterson"
Where do you fly where ATC doesn't give you the
setting on initial contact?

I can't recall getting one from TYS anytime I've mentioned having listened
to the ATIS.

As I clarified in another post, other than towers.

moo

On Sat, 07 May 2005 01:05:33 GMT, George Patterson wrote:

The instruction to climb *was* the clearance.

Hi George,

I have to respectfully disagree.

You must hear the words cleared through Bravo on a VFR flight.

See http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp7/atc0709.html

Allen

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:1tUee.52$N_5.11@trndny09...
Uh .... Just where do you fly that has an ATIS and *doesn't* have a tower?

I think his point is that one can receive an altimeter setting from ATC at
times other than dealing with an arrival in or flight through airspace
related to a towered airport (and thus at times other than when an ATIS is
available to provide the altimeter setting).

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

I think his point is that one can receive an altimeter setting from ATC at
times other than dealing with an arrival in or flight through airspace
related to a towered airport (and thus at times other than when an ATIS is
available to provide the altimeter setting).

In that case, he can say so instead of claiming that I'm wrong when I say that I
don't do this. The only times I talk to ATC are when I intend to takeoff or land
from a controlled field.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

A Lieberman wrote:

You must hear the words cleared through Bravo on a VFR flight.

New York ATC disagrees with you.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

On Sat, 07 May 2005 02:02:40 GMT, George Patterson wrote:

A Lieberman wrote:

You must hear the words cleared through Bravo on a VFR flight.

New York ATC disagrees with you.

New York doesn't disagree with me.

I would suspect they disagree with
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp7/atc0709.html which is the controlling
factor of VFR flight into Bravo airspace.

Since I am quoting the regulations, I'd suspect that your New York ATC
folks may want to take a look at the above ATC chapter.

Climbing instructions you received is clearly not a clearance into Bravo
airspace. You absolutely must hear the words Cleared into Bravo. It's
required that ATC clears you AND you are required to read back this
clearance.

FYI. This is one of the benefits of IFR flights. All airspace is
transparent, and you are cleared into Bravo once you receive your
clearance.

Lets put it another way. If my ticket is on the line, you can bet I will
be hearing those magic words before entering Bravo on a VFR flight.

But then again, if I am going near Bravo airspace, I will be filing IFR
anyway, so that I don't have to worry about it.

Allen