Does the FAA have written policy WRT landouts?

A student landed out just short of our airport in our club's 1-26 last
Saturday. No damage, no injuries, glider readily returned to it's
tiedown.

Apparently, the airport manager told his bosses about it and they
chewed him out for not immediately reporting the landout to NTSB.

The story goes on longer but I'll spare the details and cut-to-the-
chase. Does the FAA have any written policy/advisory circulars on
landouts that don't involve damage or injury and whether or not
they're reportable to NTSB? (Presumably, they're not reportable). All
this must have been played out many times before at public airports
where there is gliding.

I'm really after written documentation of FAA policy, not opinion or
haranguing. Some of our club members appear to have tried the latter
with the net result of creating hard feelings.

Thanks,
Larry

On Dec 21, 10:29*pm, Larry Suter wrote:
A student landed out just short of our airport in our club's 1-26 last
Saturday. No damage, no injuries, glider readily returned to it's
tiedown.

Apparently, the airport manager told his bosses about it and they
chewed him out for not immediately reporting the landout to NTSB.

The story goes on longer but I'll spare the details and cut-to-the-
chase. Does the FAA have any written policy/advisory circulars on
landouts that don't involve damage or injury and whether or not
they're reportable to NTSB? (Presumably, they're not reportable). All
this must have been played out many times before at public airports
where there is gliding.

I'm really after written documentation of FAA policy, not opinion or
haranguing. Some of our club members appear to have tried the latter
with the net result of creating hard feelings.

Thanks,
Larry

as long as the landing doesn't meet the definition of a reportable
incident or accident in NTSB Part 830 there is no reason to notify
anyone. There are no FAA rules prohibiting off airport operations.

On Dec 21, 8:29*pm, Larry Suter wrote:
A student landed out just short of our airport in our club's 1-26 last
Saturday. No damage, no injuries, glider readily returned to it's
tiedown.

Apparently, the airport manager told his bosses about it and they
chewed him out for not immediately reporting the landout to NTSB.

The story goes on longer but I'll spare the details and cut-to-the-
chase. Does the FAA have any written policy/advisory circulars on
landouts that don't involve damage or injury and whether or not
they're reportable to NTSB? (Presumably, they're not reportable). All
this must have been played out many times before at public airports
where there is gliding.

I'm really after written documentation of FAA policy, not opinion or
haranguing. Some of our club members appear to have tried the latter
with the net result of creating hard feelings.

Thanks,
Larry

Our local airport management believes that all on or off airport
flying incidents need to be reported to NTSB and FSDO.
We explain the NTSB 830 regulations and criteria for reporting. But we
still get the "call NTSB and tell us what they say".

We appease them, we call, self report, and then inform the management
that it was accomplished. Sometimes an off airport landing may be
called in by an innocent person unknowingly reporting an aircraft
accident. Then the first responders are involved and they have already
called FAA for you.

I know of no FAA Circulars involving off airport landings by gliders.
Some states and municipalities have issues with using there roads for
a landing zone.

T

On Dec 21, 11:10*pm, T wrote:
On Dec 21, 8:29*pm, Larry Suter wrote:









A student landed out just short of our airport in our club's 1-26 last
Saturday. No damage, no injuries, glider readily returned to it's
tiedown.

Apparently, the airport manager told his bosses about it and they
chewed him out for not immediately reporting the landout to NTSB.

The story goes on longer but I'll spare the details and cut-to-the-
chase. Does the FAA have any written policy/advisory circulars on
landouts that don't involve damage or injury and whether or not
they're reportable to NTSB? (Presumably, they're not reportable). All
this must have been played out many times before at public airports
where there is gliding.

I'm really after written documentation of FAA policy, not opinion or
haranguing. Some of our club members appear to have tried the latter
with the net result of creating hard feelings.

Thanks,
Larry

Our local airport management believes that all on or off airport
flying incidents need to be reported to NTSB and FSDO.
We explain the NTSB 830 regulations and criteria for reporting. But we
still get the "call NTSB and tell us what they say".

We appease them, we call, self report, and then inform the management
that it was accomplished. Sometimes an off airport landing may be
called in by an innocent person unknowingly reporting an aircraft
accident. Then the first responders are involved and they have already
called FAA for you.

I know of no FAA Circulars involving off airport landings by gliders.
Some states and municipalities have issues with using there roads for
a landing zone.

T

my experience in 25 or 30 landouts with maybe 5 of them involving
local law enforcement is that they have not called the FAA before they
talk to me. Even the one who was responding to the 911 call of a
plane crashing south of town came out to investigate the plane crash
first. Thankfully I got him to call off the volunteer firefighter and
ambulance squad before they showed up. YMMV.

On Dec 21, 8:29*pm, Larry Suter wrote:
A student landed out just short of our airport in our club's 1-26 last
Saturday. No damage, no injuries, glider readily returned to it's
tiedown.

Apparently, the airport manager told his bosses about it and they
chewed him out for not immediately reporting the landout to NTSB.

The story goes on longer but I'll spare the details and cut-to-the-
chase. Does the FAA have any written policy/advisory circulars on
landouts that don't involve damage or injury and whether or not
they're reportable to NTSB? (Presumably, they're not reportable). All
this must have been played out many times before at public airports
where there is gliding.

I'm really after written documentation of FAA policy, not opinion or
haranguing. Some of our club members appear to have tried the latter
with the net result of creating hard feelings.

Thanks,
Larry

I made a perfect landing in cut alfalfa alongside I-40. Five minutes
later I heard the sirens. Seems a gal had seen me while driving the
interstate and called 911 to report an awful aircraft accident! Half
the fuselage was missing and the wings were kind'a pointing forward!
At Susanville, I had a local mechanic run a block after spotting this
strange mass of parts near the end of the runway. Its tough flying a
Genesis!
JJ

my experience in 25 or 30 landouts with maybe 5 of them involving
local law enforcement is that they have not called the FAA before they
talk to me. *Even the one who was responding to the 911 call of a
plane crashing south of town came out to investigate the plane crash
first. *Thankfully I got him to call off the volunteer firefighter and
ambulance squad before they showed up. YMMV.

It may be a good idea to call 911 immediately after landing out and
tell them that there is NO accident, no matter what their other phone
calls say.

John Cochrane

Here is the link to NTSB Part 830....

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...4.1.12&idno=49

The key part seems to be shown in "830.2 Definitions". To me this
doesn't really apply to an uneventful landout...except that (like most
FAA/NTSB documentation) it is open to interpretation.

"Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation
of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards
the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have
disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury,
or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage."

"Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with
the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety
of operations."

On Dec 22, 8:50*am, JohnDeRosa wrote:
Here is the link to NTSB Part 830....

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...d=2150208c5457....

The key part seems to be shown in "830.2 Definitions". *To me this
doesn't really apply to an uneventful landout...except that (like most
FAA/NTSB documentation) it is open to interpretation.

"Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation
of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards
the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have
disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury,
or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage."

"Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with
the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety
of operations."

Another Key definition is:

Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects the
structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the
aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement
of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an
engine if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or
cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric,
ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing
gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips
are not considered “substantial damage” for the purpose of this part.

On Dec 22, 9:17*am, John Cochrane
wrote:
my experience in 25 or 30 landouts with maybe 5 of them involving
local law enforcement is that they have not called the FAA before they
talk to me. *Even the one who was responding to the 911 call of a
plane crashing south of town came out to investigate the plane crash
first. *Thankfully I got him to call off the volunteer firefighter and
ambulance squad before they showed up. YMMV.

It may be a good idea to call 911 immediately after landing out and
tell them that there is NO accident, no matter what their other phone
calls say.

John Cochrane

That will be a sure recipe for having the cops show up. As paranoid as
the law enforcement guys are, that will raise their suspicion and at
least two cruisers will show up. Its like calling in and telling the
operator that no matter what the other callers may say, there is no
bank robbery in progress.
I had the local cops show up one time but after explaining to them
that this is not an emergency but the 'plan B' in the operation of a
glider, they just took some general info and left. They are also your
best bet in finding out who the owner of the field is, if nobody else
can tell you.
But at any rate, I have never heard of a set NTSB or FAA procedure
reporting off-field landings with gliders.

A nearby glider club in Germany had a student pilot land in an old
cemetary knocking over several grave markers and damaging the glider
in the process. Some old lady from across the street called in a plane
crash and mentioned how sorry she was 'for all those dead people'.
Just about every vehicle the city had showed up to rescue the rest.

U. Neumann

On Dec 22, 9:17*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

It may be a good idea to call 911 immediately after landing out and
tell them that there is NO accident, no matter what their other phone
calls say.

John Cochrane

I had a friendly conversation with the 911 dispatch folks in NH (on
the 800 number I found on the website, not "'911"!) about this issue
after we received all sorts of unwanted "help" with a routine club
1-23 retrieve... including a medivac helicopter, fire trucks, police
cruisers, etc. etc. They did say we could feel free to call 911 as
you suggest. I don't know anyone who has actually done this. It's
hard to believe you could call 911 and *not* get a visit from someone
wearing a badge and a gun, but if it seems inevitable, it's probably
worth a try. The waste of expensive resources on a perfect, safe, no
damage to anything landout was something to behold.



-Evan Ludeman / T8