Glider Fatality in WA

On Sunday afternoon June 19th Joseph Patton died in a glider accident
at Bergseth Field near Enumclaw, WA. Joe had been flying for a few
hours in his motorglider, came in for landing with too much altitude,
stalled and crashed. Joe died instantly.

There will be a visitation (opportunity to pay last respects and talk
with his family) on Friday June 25th from 4 to 8 PM at the
Bonney-Watson Funeral Home. The funeral home is located at 1732
Broadway (between Denny and Pine, across the street from the Seattle
Central Community College) in Seattle on Capitol Hill. Parking is
available on the north side of the funeral home.

Funeral Services will be held in the chapel at that same funeral home
on Saturday June 26th at 11:00 AM.

I am new to sport (2 years). Because seems so difficult to stall a
glider when intentionally practicing both straight ahead and turning
stalls I have a hard time understanding why it is such a common reason
for a tragic incident like this.

(Mark Nyberg) wrote in message . com...
On Sunday afternoon June 19th Joseph Patton died in a glider accident
at Bergseth Field near Enumclaw, WA. Joe had been flying for a few
hours in his motorglider, came in for landing with too much altitude,
stalled and crashed. Joe died instantly.

There will be a visitation (opportunity to pay last respects and talk
with his family) on Friday June 25th from 4 to 8 PM at the
Bonney-Watson Funeral Home. The funeral home is located at 1732
Broadway (between Denny and Pine, across the street from the Seattle
Central Community College) in Seattle on Capitol Hill. Parking is
available on the north side of the funeral home.

Funeral Services will be held in the chapel at that same funeral home
on Saturday June 26th at 11:00 AM.

I don't normally comment on these posts for fear of upsetting someone, but
in this instance it is clear the report is confused, one does not crash
after a stall because of having too "much" altitude. Rich...

Joe had been flying for a few hours in his motorglider, came in for
landing with too much altitude, stalled and crashed.

It seems "old" power pilots used to keep nose high when having too much
altitude, close to stalling, in order to maximise drag. This obviously is
not the right way to react with a glider (or any ship with decent
airbrakes), and has caused some other accidents already ...
Jean

"Richard Branch" a écrit dans
le message de ...
I don't normally comment on these posts for fear of upsetting someone, but
in this instance it is clear the report is confused, one does not crash
after a stall because of having too "much" altitude. Rich...

Joe had been flying for a few hours in his motorglider, came in for
landing with too much altitude, stalled and crashed.

Fair enough...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glider Pilot Network"
To: "Richard Branch"
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 3:15 PM
Subject: [r.a.s] Glider Fatality in WA


------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Glider Fatality in WA
Author: Jean
Date/Time: 14:10 24 June 2004
------------------------------------------------------------
It seems "old" power pilots used to keep nose high when having too much
altitude, close to stalling, in order to maximise drag. This obviously
is
not the right way to react with a glider (or any ship with decent
airbrakes), and has caused some other accidents already ...
Jean

"Richard Branch" a écrit dans
le message de ...
I don't normally comment on these posts for fear of upsetting someone,
but
in this instance it is clear the report is confused, one does not crash
after a stall because of having too "much" altitude. Rich...

landing with too much altitude, stalled and crashed.







------------------------------------------------------------

Over the years I have become convinced that the way accidental stalls happen
is very different than the way stalls are frequently taught. Pulling the
nose way up and waiting for the break is just not how it happens. If stalls
are taught this way the student forms the impression that nobody but an
idiot would accidentally stall a glider.

Reducing the airspeed very slowly until the glider stalls is more like a
real situation. With a slow airspeed reduction the glider will begin to
settle in a level attitude so that the AOA increases without the nose
getting very high. The break, when it comes, is likely to be more
"interesting".

Even better is teaching stalls starting from slow flight. Flying a square
pattern at minimum controllable airspeed before applying enough backpressure
to induce a stall gives a much better demonstration of what an accidental
stall looks like. This is more likely to produce an impression that, "this
could really happen". If a pilot thinks it could happen, he will be more
cautious.

Bill Daniels


"Jean" wrote in message
...
It seems "old" power pilots used to keep nose high when having too much
altitude, close to stalling, in order to maximise drag. This obviously is
not the right way to react with a glider (or any ship with decent
airbrakes), and has caused some other accidents already ...
Jean

"Richard Branch" a écrit
dans
le message de ...
I don't normally comment on these posts for fear of upsetting someone,
but
in this instance it is clear the report is confused, one does not crash
after a stall because of having too "much" altitude. Rich...

Joe had been flying for a few hours in his motorglider, came in for
landing with too much altitude, stalled and crashed.

It seems "old" power pilots used to keep nose high when having too much
altitude, close to stalling, in order to maximise drag. This obviously is
not the right way to react with a glider (or any ship with decent
airbrakes), and has caused some other accidents already ...

Comment:

I am an old power pilot and I do not know anyone who ever used that method.
The forward slip has been used by pilots since about WW I to lose altitude.
Some of today's new motorgliders do not have spoilers and slips may be used
in their place.

I do not know the facts about the accident, and cannot comment on what
actually happened.

There are few or no "old" pilots who lose altitude close to the ground by
mushing the aircraft near a stall. That might work for Ercoupes, where it
was impossible to cross-control.

Colin


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COLIN LAMB wrote:
It seems "old" power pilots used to keep nose high when having too much
altitude, close to stalling, in order to maximise drag. ...

Comment:

I am an old power pilot and I do not know anyone who ever used that method.

I was taught this method when I was getting checked out in a Citabria.
It was principally used while still "reasonably" high on final when
there was a headwind and you were too high. It worked well enough when
it was demonstrated to me but I've never done it on my own - nor do I
intend to. Slow and close to the ground on a windy day seems unwise, to
say the least.

Tony V.

(Mark Nyberg) wrote in message . com...
On Sunday afternoon June 19th Joseph Patton died in a glider accident
at Bergseth Field near Enumclaw, WA. Joe had been flying for a few
hours in his motorglider, came in for landing with too much altitude,
stalled and crashed. Joe died instantly.

There will be a visitation (opportunity to pay last respects and talk
with his family) on Friday June 25th from 4 to 8 PM at the
Bonney-Watson Funeral Home. The funeral home is located at 1732
Broadway (between Denny and Pine, across the street from the Seattle
Central Community College) in Seattle on Capitol Hill. Parking is
available on the north side of the funeral home.

Funeral Services will be held in the chapel at that same funeral home
on Saturday June 26th at 11:00 AM.

Having been involved with gliding for only two years I find it
difficult to understand this type of landing/stall accident. Of
course we do not have very much information but stalling a glider in
practice seems to give plenty of warning yet this type of landing
accident seems to be happening very frequently.

I am new to sport (2 years). Because seems so difficult to stall a
glider when intentionally practicing both straight ahead and turning
stalls I have a hard time understanding why it is such a common reason
for a tragic incident like this.

Hal,
A credible witness observed that by the time Joe realized he was in
trouble, he was too high, had a slight tailwind and had too much
energy for a normal landing. If he proceeded straight ahead he was
certainly going to overrun the runway and end up rolling into the
trees. For some reason he made a hard turn to the right followed by a
hard turn to the left. He ended up low (about 50' AGL) and slow near
midfield.

Out training teaches us to keep our speed up, but at very-low
altitudes our human nature tells us to pull back on the stick in a
turn to stay away from the ground. I didn't understand this very well
until I went up with and instructor who had me practice some slow
skidding turns (like the kind of turn we might be tempted to make from
base to final if we don't have much altitude). I found that stalling
and spin entry can be much easier and more dramatic than I thought. I
am glad you asked about this.

Mark Nyberg