If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
I believe the total costs would be considered operating costs because if the owner didn't invest in the
aircraft to start with how could it be operated at all? You can believe that if you want to, Jim, but if you wrote that on an exam in Economics 101, you would get an F. vince norris |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Jim Carter
wrote in message ... ... And you would be wrong. From 14 CFR 61.113 (c) ...provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expeditures, or rental fees. As a US private pilot, you can't "share" the cost of such things as engine overhauls, home based tie down fees, insurance, normal maintenance, etc. ... -- Jim Pennino And "airport expenditures" would be? I interpret that to mean any expenditure I make to maintain the aircraft at the airport in an airworthy condition. Admittedly, "airport expenditures" is rather abstract and might go either way, but until it is more properly defined mighten it also cover maintenance, hanger or tie down, and any other expense at the airport for the aircraft? The CFR doesn't specifically say landing fee, or parking fee, but it could have. Please understand, I'm not advocating any fees or charges here. What I am saying is that it should be up to the owner to decide what the hourly rate is that the passenger would be splitting, not the passenger. That was the whole point of my post and I believe I even said so in a previous note. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Jim Carter wrote:
Jim Carter wrote in message ... ... And you would be wrong. From 14 CFR 61.113 (c) ...provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expeditures, or rental fees. As a US private pilot, you can't "share" the cost of such things as engine overhauls, home based tie down fees, insurance, normal maintenance, etc. ... -- Jim Pennino And "airport expenditures" would be? I interpret that to mean any expenditure I make to maintain the aircraft at the airport in an airworthy condition. Admittedly, "airport expenditures" is rather abstract and might go either way, but until it is more properly defined mighten it also cover maintenance, hanger or tie down, and any other expense at the airport for the aircraft? The CFR doesn't specifically say landing fee, or parking fee, but it could have. Please understand, I'm not advocating any fees or charges here. What I am saying is that it should be up to the owner to decide what the hourly rate is that the passenger would be splitting, not the passenger. That was the whole point of my post and I believe I even said so in a previous note. AOPA has numerous articles on the subject at http://www.aopa.org/members/files/to...1-part135.html From one of them: Passengers on a flight with a pilot who was already planning to take the trip for his own purposes can contribute equally with the pilot to the direct operating costs of the flight. This includes the gas and oil used, the landing fee, and the rental cost if the pilot does not own the aircraft. Passengers may not contribute to the pilot's indirect expenses incurred because of the flight, such as the airplane's annual inspection, oil changes, or hangar rental. "These are rules that are broken daily by pilots and passengers who do not realize that they are in violation," said Kathy Minner, an AOPA aviation technical specialist. "Some pilots go their whole lives not knowing, or call us after someone ? perhaps an FAA official ? raises the question to them." Sounds like they are describing you. -- Jim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Jim Carter wrote: And "airport expenditures" would be? The ramp fees and landing fees associated with that flight. I interpret that to mean any expenditure I make to maintain the aircraft at the airport in an airworthy condition. And you would lose your certificate at the first hearing if violated. Admittedly, "airport expenditures" is rather abstract and might go either way, but until it is more properly defined mighten it also cover maintenance, hanger or tie down, and any other expense at the airport for the aircraft? The CFR doesn't specifically say landing fee, or parking fee, but it could have. The CFR says "operating expenses of a flight". That is not abstract and cannot "go either way", especially in an FAA hearing. George Patterson If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have been looking for it. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Norris was the passenger on this trip, and it was he who had written
that he wouldn't pay anything except direct costs. That's your (mis)interpretation. The fact is, my friend asked me to fly with him instead of taking my own airplane because his intended fellow-pilot can't go. I was the one who said I would go but with the understanding I would pay half the full operating costs. On a previous long cross country when I flew my own airplane, he asked his passenger to pay only half of the gas. I wouldhn't have felt right paying only that much. The bottom line is under US regs you can't legally do this under 14 CFR 61. vince norris |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
"vincent p. norris" wrote in message ... Mr. Norris was the passenger on this trip, and it was he who had written that he wouldn't pay anything except direct costs. That's your (mis)interpretation. The fact is, my friend asked me to fly with him instead of taking my own airplane because his intended fellow-pilot can't go. I was the one who said I would go but with the understanding I would pay half the full operating costs. On a previous long cross country when I flew my own airplane, he asked his passenger to pay only half of the gas. I wouldhn't have felt right paying only that much. The bottom line is under US regs you can't legally do this under 14 CFR 61. vince norris Well, sir, if it's appreciating like a Skylane you will only need to buy in on the avgas. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
To the below operating costs-.........double or triple those figures if you
licence and fly your plane in Canada! wrote in message news:H0u2d.8226$MS1.2892@trnddc02... On 16-Sep-2004, vincent p. norris wrote: It depends primarily on number of hours flown per year, but given that value it's not too tough to calculate. DIRECT OPERATING COST: Figure 8 gal fuel/hr @ $3.00/gal = $24/hr Figure $16000 for engine overhaul, 2000 hr TBO = $8/hr Figure usage related maintenance = maybe $2/hr (assuming you do your own oil changes) TOTAL DIRECT OPERATNG COSTS = $34/hr FIXED COSTS: Tiedown/hangar, could be anywhere from free to $500/mo. Lets say tiedown at $100/mo = $1200/yr Insurance will depend upon pilot experience and hull value. Let's say $800/yr Annual inspection and other maintenance: When we had a 172 I think it averaged around $1600/yr. (including avionics). TOTAL FIXED COSTS = $3600/yr If the plane is flown a typical 150 hrs/yr, fixed costs as estimated above come in at $24/hr, so total operating cost per hour would be $34 + $24 = $58. But if you only fly 50 hrs/yr the hourly cost is a whopping $96. Note that this analysis does not include depreciation (or appreciation) or costs for periodic painting and interior upgrades, or interest charges on a loan, if applicable. YMMV. -- -Elliott Drucker |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 2 | February 2nd 04 11:41 PM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 1 | January 2nd 04 09:02 PM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 0 | October 2nd 03 03:07 AM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 4 | August 7th 03 05:12 AM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently-Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 0 | July 4th 03 04:50 PM |