Are Planes taking off in Thunderstorms normal?

On 2007-05-06 05:11:53 -0700, "Dudley Henriques" said:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.130...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
. 130...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in
:


wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 5, 5:10 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Aircraft normally wait for thunderstorms to pass before taking
off. No aircraft is safe in a thunderstorm.

So most likely the Kenya Airways flight didn't follow procedure or
receive clearance?

Hard to say not knowing the exact situation, but in my opinion, only
a pilot with a death wish accepts a takeoff clearance in the middle
of a thunderstorm.

It doesn't neceesarily follow that he took off in the middle of a
CB...

I agree. To do that would have been against all my sense of logic
anyway. Stranger things have happened, and pilots do indeed from time
to time push weather for one reason or another but I'd hate to second
guess this poor guy at this point. It's been my experience that what
appears almost certain immediately after these things seldom carries
through the investigation.

Precisely. I've flown in that part of the world quite a lot and the CBs
have to be seen to be believed. I've been at 310 and had the tops
further away than the bottoms as often as not. The size of them is also
astonishing and seeing into a large, tight group of cells is next to
impossible, even with the best radar. It's hard work but it has to be
done or you're on the ground for the best part of six months there.

Bertie

Reminds me of an old story I heard once that was going around UAL for
awhile;

A major airline hired a new first officer right out of post graduate school
and stuck him in the right seat of a 737 with a crusty old Captain who came
up through the ranks after dropping out of high school.
On their first flight together, the Captain told the first officer to just
sit back and watch and do absolutely nothing.
The Captain took off, climbed to FL 360 as filed and leveled off. He set the
autopilot and inertial nav for waypoints and told the first officer that he
was going to take a nap. The first officer was to touch nothing.......do
nothing! Under NO circumstances, was he to disturb the Captain.
The Captain went to sleep.
The first officer sat there watching the panel. After a while he noticed on
the weather radar a HUGE storm ahead directly in the path of the airplane.
He watched with interest and gathering alarm as the storm got closer and
closer.
At about twenty miles, the storm looked absolutely frightening; the biggest
thing he had ever seen in his life. He just stared at it on the screen while
he pondered the Captain's request not to be disturbed for any reason.
Finally, fearing that if a course correction wasn't made immediately, the
storm would tear the airplane apart, he decided he couldn't wait any longer
to wake the Captain.
"Captain.......Captain" he said, "wake up sir...look at this!! It's my
sincere recommendation sir, that we circumnavigate that storm
immediately!!!!!!!!!!!"
The Captain awoke in a start and took one look at the radar screen;
"Circumnavigate my ass!!!!!!. We're goin AROUND that son-of-a-bitch!!!!!"

Dudley Henriques

I am certain that I have flown with that guy.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2007050621473638165-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
On 2007-05-06 05:11:53 -0700, "Dudley Henriques"
said:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.130...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
. 130...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in
:


wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 5, 5:10 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Aircraft normally wait for thunderstorms to pass before taking
off. No aircraft is safe in a thunderstorm.

So most likely the Kenya Airways flight didn't follow procedure or
receive clearance?

Hard to say not knowing the exact situation, but in my opinion, only
a pilot with a death wish accepts a takeoff clearance in the middle
of a thunderstorm.

It doesn't neceesarily follow that he took off in the middle of a
CB...

I agree. To do that would have been against all my sense of logic
anyway. Stranger things have happened, and pilots do indeed from time
to time push weather for one reason or another but I'd hate to second
guess this poor guy at this point. It's been my experience that what
appears almost certain immediately after these things seldom carries
through the investigation.

Precisely. I've flown in that part of the world quite a lot and the CBs
have to be seen to be believed. I've been at 310 and had the tops
further away than the bottoms as often as not. The size of them is also
astonishing and seeing into a large, tight group of cells is next to
impossible, even with the best radar. It's hard work but it has to be
done or you're on the ground for the best part of six months there.

Bertie

Reminds me of an old story I heard once that was going around UAL for
awhile;

A major airline hired a new first officer right out of post graduate
school
and stuck him in the right seat of a 737 with a crusty old Captain who
came
up through the ranks after dropping out of high school.
On their first flight together, the Captain told the first officer to
just
sit back and watch and do absolutely nothing.
The Captain took off, climbed to FL 360 as filed and leveled off. He set
the
autopilot and inertial nav for waypoints and told the first officer that
he
was going to take a nap. The first officer was to touch nothing.......do
nothing! Under NO circumstances, was he to disturb the Captain.
The Captain went to sleep.
The first officer sat there watching the panel. After a while he noticed
on
the weather radar a HUGE storm ahead directly in the path of the
airplane.
He watched with interest and gathering alarm as the storm got closer and
closer.
At about twenty miles, the storm looked absolutely frightening; the
biggest
thing he had ever seen in his life. He just stared at it on the screen
while
he pondered the Captain's request not to be disturbed for any reason.
Finally, fearing that if a course correction wasn't made immediately, the
storm would tear the airplane apart, he decided he couldn't wait any
longer
to wake the Captain.
"Captain.......Captain" he said, "wake up sir...look at this!! It's my
sincere recommendation sir, that we circumnavigate that storm
immediately!!!!!!!!!!!"
The Captain awoke in a start and took one look at the radar screen;
"Circumnavigate my ass!!!!!!. We're goin AROUND that son-of-a-bitch!!!!!"

Dudley Henriques

I am certain that I have flown with that guy.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

I think all of us might have flown with him at least once at one time or
another :-))
Dudley Henriques

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Maxwell writes:

First of all the statement is not completley correct.

Which part of the statement is incorrect, and why is the incorrect
portion (if any) important if the correct portion is not?

Send me $600 and I'll tell you you terrorist Wannabe.


Bertie

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Maxwell writes:

First of all the statement is not completley correct.

Which part of the statement is incorrect, and why is the incorrect portion
(if
any) important if the correct portion is not?


Say what? Do you even understand that question?

Besides, I don't train trolls.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2007050614564343658-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
On 2007-05-05 13:48:33 -0700, said:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/886/story/55281.html

I would not depart in a thunderstorm no matter what I was flying.

How many flights have you refused to board because of the weather?

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

William Black wrote:

I would not depart in a thunderstorm no matter what I was flying.

How many flights have you refused to board because of the weather?


I once dumped an Apache in Fayetteville, NC because of collecting a pile of ice
on the approach in. I called my boss, told him his Apache could be found in
Fayetteville, and that I would be boarding a USAir flight shortly back to
Charlotte. It's one thing to pick up ice on the approach; I was headed downhill
anyway. It's a very different situation trying to climb through a freezing
overcast and I wasn't going to do it.

But I did climb on the USAir jet without hesitation. I figured it had
deicing/anti-icing. It must have had something, because we made the flight home
without any trouble.

As an aside, I have launched many times immediately after a cell moved off the
field, as long as it didn't move in the direction I intended to go. But I have
never launched with one overhead. I don't know anybody who would.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Steve Foley wrote in message ...
wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.thenewstribune.com/886/story/55281.html


Reading the story says "there were thunderstorms", and it says they took
off
"during a storm". It doesn't say they took off during a thunderstorm.

It crashed 90 miles from the airport. That doesn't sound like a problem
during takeoff to me.

That initial claim was apperently due to some mixed up satellite signal. The
plane actually crashed only 12 miles away. Engine failures or lightning are
certainly possibilities. And I'm surprised that a terrorist bomb hasn't been
mentioned...so far, since witnesses claimed hearing an explosion.

- Rick

Mxsmanic wrote:
Mike Hunt writes:


Especially if you are a lawyer as well as an aviator and you have night
vision problems.


Hmm ... do you have someone specific in mind?

Not really. No Harm, no foul.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Aircraft normally wait for thunderstorms to pass before taking off.
No aircraft is safe in a thunderstorm.

Yep. Our plane which was bound for Melbourne had to divert to sydney,
because there were t-storms in Melbourne. Very bloody annoying as it didn't
have enough petrol and so had to refuel (while we muttered on the plane) in
Sydney and then continue on to Melbourne.

--
Don't try to email me;
I'm using the spammer
du jour's email addy

On Sun 06 May 2007 02:22:59, Buster wrote in
rec.travel.air:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
. 130...
Bwawhahwhahhwhahwhahwh!

Doesn't matte rhow much information is available, you wouldn't
know what it meant, fjukkwit.


Bertie

Heyyyyy - Bertie the Butt Nip is back with all of his vast
knowledge. Yer too cool Bertie.



Hey guys, why don't you keep your poster Buster's trash post in this
group?

Buster is Hummingbird (Chris Millbank). He uses several aliases but no
matter how technically clever he makes them, you can always tell it's
him by the timing and the content. He has posted in
rec.aviation.piloting, rec.travel.air, alt.disasters.aviation a few
times this year

If you need to know more about this asshole then this check out:

"Welcome to a.c.f - Hummingbird: THIS IS YOUR LIFE!"
Google Groups: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2pub8a
MID:


Unfortunately this long standing spoofer, troll and nasty piece of work
came into alt.comp.freeware where his past was properly reviewed.

Now he makes pleas for clemency like this. And there have been many
more in recent days in alt.comp.freeware.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

From: hummingbird
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
Subject: ACF improvement project
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:07:19 +0100
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On Tue 14 Aug 2007 15:07:19, hummingbird
wrote in alt.comp.freewa

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:23:41 +0100 'jon' posted this onto
alt.comp.freewa

I have repeatedly had to put up with RL threats here recently from
the Millbank/hummingbird drone because he has objected to usenet
posts of mine.

Jon, Since you have completely ignored the ceasefire called by
BB/HB last Sunday ...Let's get this absolutely clear shall we:

The person who has been threatening is YOU and YOU KNOW IT. I have
made NO threats to you on ACF nor in RL. EVER.

*Anybody* who has had to put up with the filthy smears, lies and
stalking from you which I have had to over the last three months,
would also object to usenet posts of yours. FGS!

How do you think I feel every day when I see yet another piece of
my private life and ID being dribbled out onto ACF by you, along
with strong hints that you have lots more to post??? That is
intimidation and threatening behaviour. It may seem like fun to
you, but it isn't to me. My privacy has always been very important
to me and you have violated it to the extreme. I live in daily fear
that you have somehow trawled my home address and will post it on
ACF for the whole world and Franklin to see. He has already been
asking around ACF on how he can get access to UK electoral lists,
he obviously wants my home address to splatter across ACF and the
Internet for the world to see.

Then what??? Dog poop through my letterbox??? Bricks through my
windows??? Fire bombs through my windows??? My car wrecked???
Lawns sprayed with weedkiller???

If I posted just a list of MIDs of your posts which contained lies,
distortions, out of context quotes, smears, false allegations and
personal ID info, it would go on for screenfulls. You know that.
If I added a list of Franklin's tripe it would never end.

Your latest smear was to tell Kat Mandu in another thread that I
went to the gay beach in Patong procuring offers of gay marriage.

Before that, you cut/pasted some comments of mine onto ACF which
I had posted onto a Thai hotel website. Clearly you have spent
endless hours/days/weeks trawling the Internet for every juicy
snippet. WHY???

Further, you publicly offered all your juicy snippets to others on
ACF and afaik have provided said info to other people via private
e-mail. I note that you exchange juicy gossipy lies with Franklin
on ACF on a daily basis. You deliberately feed his mania.

A while ago, you posted an 8,000 line post onto ACF containing
much of the juicy snippets about me which you had at that time. Now
you have the gall to claim it was "a newbie posting error", yet
yesterday you described yourself as a "geek". Sunday night you
posted that an anon post on ACF was from me and that it crossed
your red line.

Well, I have read that post and can see nothing racial in it. Of
course you're trying to blow it up. I can see you're scratching
around in the dirt for excuses and distractions to justify your own
behaviour but you'll have to do a lot better than that Jon.

Play the innocent victim role all you like Jon but you had no
reason to start your stalking campaign, and the evidence and truth
is now in the hands of independent advisors and it doesn't matter
one jot what your fair weather friends on ACF say. They will all
run for the trees when the sh*t hits the fan. Believe me, that's
what bullies do.

Your actions on ACF towards me over the last three months amount
to intimidation, threatening behaviour, libel, defamation, stalking
and probably a few other things.

And like a 12 year-old child, when you saw the law closing in on
you, you had the gall to claim that you did it because I once said
"keep digging". Do you think police/lawyers/courts are all
idiots???

At every stage I warned you of the hole you were digging and asked
you to "back off", "back away" and "get off this track" but your
childish bully-boy bloated ego just cannot be controlled can it.

It is increasingly clear to me that the only thing which will reign
you in are the prosecution papers arriving on your doormat and you
are held to account in a court of law.

Yesterday, HUSS posted about this very subject and he advised your
cozy friend Franklin(?) "don't go there". Huss knows where it can
lead to; so did I three months ago, that's why I kept warning you.
But you have ignored all the wiser counsels on this and got
yourself into a huge legal hole. Bully-boy bloated egos always
rule.

I even pointed out to you yesterday (via private e-mail) that a
final decision on whether to take legal proceedings against you
will be influenced by your behaviour towards me on ACF in the
coming period. But here you are today pouring out more projections,
insults and distortions and defaming me yet again.

??? Do you never learn ???

"You just cannot stop it can you Jon"

You have got yourself into a vicious cycle of obsession about me
and my private affairs and it is leading you straight towards the
law. WAKE UP.

I URGE YOU TO READ AND RE-READ MY TWO PRIVATE E-MAILS SENT TO YOU
YESTERDAY AND WHEN YOU'VE DONE SO, READ THEM AGAIN. There are
people in this world a million times wiser than you Jon. You really
ought to listen to them and take advice. Those people do not mainly
reside on ACF.

What I have posted above is just the tip of the iceberg about Jon's
behaviour. Some of it has been quite disgusting.

I have nothing more to say on this matter in public at this time
and will unlikely even read anything posted by ACF's No.1 Troll and
Troublemaker: Franklin.

If he would like to post his RL name/address/ISP, I will deal with
it.

Thank you.



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