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K8b restoration



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 2nd 19, 06:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Leonard[_2_]
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Posts: 1,076
Default K8b restoration

On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 1:15:04 AM UTC-6, Eric Munk wrote:

Much snippery...

Wood is spruce by heart.


Sorry, Eric, bust I must disagree with you on that. Keifer is not the same as Spruce. If you use Spruce in equivalent thickness, you come out with a weaker spar.

Also, to another comment. Longer scarfs required for Keifer and backing blocks, as dictated by AC43.13 are not to be used, as they impart a "stiff spot" in the wing.

Please buy a copy of the translation of Workshop Practices, join VSA, and absorb the knowledge that is available through this group (VSA).

Steve Leonard
  #12  
Old February 2nd 19, 08:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Per Carlin
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Posts: 90
Default K8b restoration

Kiefer is Pine, however can't you just pick the wood in the local warehouse, there is specifications as curls per cm, humidity etc to be OK for planes.

Workshop Practice by the Vintage Sailplane Association is translated from German and covers all you need to know on wood, selection, testing, gluing etc and some more.
  #13  
Old February 2nd 19, 11:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default K8b restoration

John Foster wrote on 2/1/2019 5:29 PM:
I was given a junked K8b due to water damage to the wood at the wing root and multiple tears in the original fabric and chipped/peeling paint. However, it looks like it may be restorable (worth it, that's another story). Anyway, I'm interested to know if there is an online repair manual that lays out the specific techniques of repairing or replacing wood in the wings, and specifications on what type of wood to be used, etc. I looked around and found the list of ADs, but nothing that laid out what I am looking for. I've contacted Schleicher as well, but they simply directed me to a link on their website, that didn't really give the information I needed. This is a certified glider, and I'd like to keep it that way, as I'm hoping to use it as a club glider.


Are you familiar with restoring wooden aircraft, and are just looking for
specifics on the K8? If that's not the case, I suggest the first thing you look
for is someone that has restored a K8, and go from there. A club ship should be
restored to a higher standard than an individual might accept.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #14  
Old February 3rd 19, 12:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 2,099
Default K8b restoration

On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 6:29:38 PM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
I was given a junked K8b due to water damage to the wood at the wing root and multiple tears in the original fabric and chipped/peeling paint. However, it looks like it may be restorable (worth it, that's another story). Anyway, I'm interested to know if there is an online repair manual that lays out the specific techniques of repairing or replacing wood in the wings, and specifications on what type of wood to be used, etc. I looked around and found the list of ADs, but nothing that laid out what I am looking for. I've contacted Schleicher as well, but they simply directed me to a link on their website, that didn't really give the information I needed. This is a certified glider, and I'd like to keep it that way, as I'm hoping to use it as a club glider.


My SWAG would be that type of restoration this glider might require will involve 3-4 years of part-time effort.

Frank Whiteley
  #15  
Old February 3rd 19, 02:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default K8b restoration

On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 7:29:38 PM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
I was given a junked K8b due to water damage to the wood at the wing root and multiple tears in the original fabric and chipped/peeling paint. However, it looks like it may be restorable (worth it, that's another story). Anyway, I'm interested to know if there is an online repair manual that lays out the specific techniques of repairing or replacing wood in the wings, and specifications on what type of wood to be used, etc. I looked around and found the list of ADs, but nothing that laid out what I am looking for. I've contacted Schleicher as well, but they simply directed me to a link on their website, that didn't really give the information I needed. This is a certified glider, and I'd like to keep it that way, as I'm hoping to use it as a club glider.


I was one of the two co-editors of the translation of Hans Jacobs book Werkstattpraxis - Workshop Practice. All the information you need can be found in this book, and more importantly, the information is appropriate for the construction utilized to build the K8b. A few copies of the book are still available thru the VSA website, Cumulus Soaring in the USA, and Eqip Publisher in Germany.

Some repairs made using AC-43.13 or many other methods should be avoided, particularly spar repairs, since they add stress concentration. The methods in Workshop Practice are the best for wood airplanes of all types. The book also has several pages of addendum that I wrote to address items that have become available after the last edition of the book in German.

You should consider joining the Vintage Sailplane Association (VSA in USA) and/or the Vintage Glider Club (VGC worldwide, but HQ in UK). Check out their Facebook pages as well (Vintage & Classic Sailplanes or Vintage Glider Club). There are many postings every day and it is an excellent way to get questions answered. Thru these organizations, you should be able to find someone near you that can help you assess the condition of the glider and make appropriate decisions on how to more forward. You may also find important parts and lessons for others who have done the work before.

If you are in the USA, you could contact me directly thru email, my address is on the VSA website. I am also the Drawing Archivist for the VSA, and we can help you with drawings.

Best of luck with what I believe to be a worthwhile endeavor. ..... Neal
  #16  
Old February 3rd 19, 11:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default K8b restoration

On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 6:55:07 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 7:29:38 PM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
I was given a junked K8b due to water damage to the wood at the wing root and multiple tears in the original fabric and chipped/peeling paint. However, it looks like it may be restorable (worth it, that's another story). Anyway, I'm interested to know if there is an online repair manual that lays out the specific techniques of repairing or replacing wood in the wings, and specifications on what type of wood to be used, etc. I looked around and found the list of ADs, but nothing that laid out what I am looking for.. I've contacted Schleicher as well, but they simply directed me to a link on their website, that didn't really give the information I needed. This is a certified glider, and I'd like to keep it that way, as I'm hoping to use it as a club glider.


I was one of the two co-editors of the translation of Hans Jacobs book Werkstattpraxis - Workshop Practice. All the information you need can be found in this book, and more importantly, the information is appropriate for the construction utilized to build the K8b. A few copies of the book are still available thru the VSA website, Cumulus Soaring in the USA, and Eqip Publisher in Germany.

Some repairs made using AC-43.13 or many other methods should be avoided, particularly spar repairs, since they add stress concentration. The methods in Workshop Practice are the best for wood airplanes of all types. The book also has several pages of addendum that I wrote to address items that have become available after the last edition of the book in German.

You should consider joining the Vintage Sailplane Association (VSA in USA) and/or the Vintage Glider Club (VGC worldwide, but HQ in UK). Check out their Facebook pages as well (Vintage & Classic Sailplanes or Vintage Glider Club). There are many postings every day and it is an excellent way to get questions answered. Thru these organizations, you should be able to find someone near you that can help you assess the condition of the glider and make appropriate decisions on how to more forward. You may also find important parts and lessons for others who have done the work before.

If you are in the USA, you could contact me directly thru email, my address is on the VSA website. I am also the Drawing Archivist for the VSA, and we can help you with drawings.

Best of luck with what I believe to be a worthwhile endeavor. ..... Neal


Thanks for all the replies. I'm definitely going to have to get a copy of Jacob's book. I have a friend in town who is an A&P/IA, and has had a fair bit of experience doing repairs on wooden aircraft before. He has taken a brief look at this glider and feels "it has good bones". The spar seems good to him, although there are a few glue joints on the ribs that need to be "redone". The wing root rib seems to have delaminated on the left wing, which I'm thinking will need some attention, but otherwise it appears that it will mostly be a recovering job. Once I get the fabric off the bottom of the left wing, I'll have him take a closer look at it and let me know what he thinks.
  #17  
Old February 3rd 19, 12:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Munk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default K8b restoration

Replacing wing root rib ply is a fairly straightforward job on the
K8. Good luck! Lovely little gliders...

At 10:08 03 February 2019, John Foster wrote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 6:55:07 PM UTC-7,


=
wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 7:29:38 PM UTC-6, John Foster

wrote:
I was given a junked K8b due to water damage to the wood

at the wing
ro=
ot and multiple tears in the original fabric and chipped/peeling

paint.
Ho=
wever, it looks like it may be restorable (worth it, that's another
story).=
Anyway, I'm interested to know if there is an online repair

manual that
l=
ays out the specific techniques of repairing or replacing wood in

the
wings=
, and specifications on what type of wood to be used, etc. I

looked
around=
and found the list of ADs, but nothing that laid out what I am

looking
for=
.. I've contacted Schleicher as well, but they simply directed me

to a
link=
on their website, that didn't really give the information I

needed. This
=
is a certified glider, and I'd like to keep it that way, as I'm hoping

to
u=
se it as a club glider.
=20
I was one of the two co-editors of the translation of Hans

Jacobs book
We=
rkstattpraxis - Workshop Practice. All the information you need

can be
fou=
nd in this book, and more importantly, the information is

appropriate for
t=
he construction utilized to build the K8b. A few copies of the

book are
st=
ill available thru the VSA website, Cumulus Soaring in the USA,

and Eqip
Pu=
blisher in Germany.
=20
Some repairs made using AC-43.13 or many other methods

should be
avoided,=
particularly spar repairs, since they add stress concentration.

The
metho=
ds in Workshop Practice are the best for wood airplanes of all

types. The
=
book also has several pages of addendum that I wrote to

address items that
=
have become available after the last edition of the book in

German.
=20
You should consider joining the Vintage Sailplane Association

(VSA in
USA=
) and/or the Vintage Glider Club (VGC worldwide, but HQ in UK).

Check out
=
their Facebook pages as well (Vintage & Classic Sailplanes or

Vintage
Glide=
r Club). There are many postings every day and it is an

excellent way to
g=
et questions answered. Thru these organizations, you should be

able to
fin=
d someone near you that can help you assess the condition of

the glider
and=
make appropriate decisions on how to more forward. You may

also find
impo=
rtant parts and lessons for others who have done the work

before.
=20
If you are in the USA, you could contact me directly thru

email, my
addre=
ss is on the VSA website. I am also the Drawing Archivist for the

VSA,
and=
we can help you with drawings.
=20
Best of luck with what I believe to be a worthwhile endeavor.

..... Neal

Thanks for all the replies. I'm definitely going to have to get a

copy of
J=
acob's book. I have a friend in town who is an A&P/IA, and has

had a fair
=
bit of experience doing repairs on wooden aircraft before. He

has taken a
=
brief look at this glider and feels "it has good bones". The spar

seems
go=
od to him, although there are a few glue joints on the ribs that

need to
be=
"redone". The wing root rib seems to have delaminated on the

left wing,
w=
hich I'm thinking will need some attention, but otherwise it

appears that
i=
t will mostly be a recovering job. Once I get the fabric off the

bottom
of=
the left wing, I'll have him take a closer look at it and let me

know
what=
he thinks.


  #18  
Old February 4th 19, 04:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Leonard[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,076
Default K8b restoration

On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 5:30:05 AM UTC-6, Eric Munk wrote:
Replacing wing root rib ply is a fairly straightforward job on the
K8. Good luck! Lovely little gliders...

And this time, I agree with Eric. Ply delam on the root rib is one thing. Should be relatively easy fix.

I only have two flights in mine (so many other planes to play with!), but it is a lovely flying plane! Was so nice to fly a silent plane. No electrics. Not even a hand held radio on board. Too bad the pee tube was blocked.. Made things a bit sporting there for a while, flying with a full funnel! I was very glad the baggie didn't have a leak in it!

Steve Leonard
Ka-8B
N6660D
  #19  
Old February 4th 19, 12:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Munk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default K8b restoration

At 17:32 02 February 2019, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 1:15:04 AM UTC-6, Eric Munk wrote:

Much snippery...

Wood is spruce by heart.


Sorry, Eric, bust I must disagree with you on that. Keifer is not the

same
as Spruce. If you use Spruce in equivalent thickness, you come out with

a
weaker spar.

Also, to another comment. Longer scarfs required for Keifer and backing
blocks, as dictated by AC43.13 are not to be used, as they impart a

"stiff
spot" in the wing.

Please buy a copy of the translation of Workshop Practices, join VSA, and
absorb the knowledge that is available through this group (VSA).

Steve Leonard


Always happy to stand corrected, Steve. Have been putting lots of Kiefer in
Schleicher's finest as of late, on the European side of the Atlantic, but
thought spruce would be a good translation for it...

PS: the VSA's translation of Jacobs' masterpiece is lovely!

  #20  
Old February 20th 19, 07:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default K8b restoration

Get in touch with the Australian Gliding museum,they are in the process of restoring a K8 to airworthy condition from a wreck found in a trailer .they have a wealth of experience and expertise.
 




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