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#1
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
We were grounded last week, after discovering a cracked exhaust pipe and
rotted muffler baffles during routine maintenance. Amazingly, we discovered that Dawley Aviation (*the* exhaust repair station in the Midwest, and the place my A&P recommended) is located in Burlington, WI -- literally on the road to Racine -- which was where we were headed for "Xmas II". So, we ripped off the old system and tossed it in the back of the Subaru with all the luggage and presents. Four hours after leaving Iowa City, we were at Dawley's VERY impressive offices. They are clearly a well-established business, with a large, clean factory floor, and a nice, clean front office area, housing half a dozen office workers in private offices. It looked more like a bank than any aviation business I'd ever had the pleasure of seeing before -- quite different from most of these kinds of places. Steve, their VERY knowledgeable sales manager, was there to greet us. It was obvious that he (and the staff) weren't used to having customers drop stuff off (a steady stream of UPS and FedEx trucks flowed in and out while we were there), but he took it all in stride and seemed genuinely pleased to actually SEE someone for a change. It turned out that Steve had trained with the same CFI as I did, over in East Troy, Wi, so we were instantly fast friends as we traded "Old Bob" stories back and forth. He took the cruddy old parts from me, identified what could be re-used, and said that I could pick the new system up on our way out of town the next day. It was as easy as that, and we were soon off to Racine for Xmas with Mary's family. The next day we swung back into their office, and it was all ready to go. Dang, they literally replaced EVERYTHING except one flange on both the triple pipes and the muffler. Everything else is brand-spanking new. Steve wished Mary and the kids a happy new year, gave each of us a bag of peanuts (which they apparently always throw in the box -- it's a Dawley tradition that goes way back to their beginning), and charged us $620. Not cheap, by any stretch, but still way cheaper than new. All in all, a very pleasant experience, and a real pleasure to work with a guy that's so knowledgeable. In answer to questions, Steve went on at great length about the metallurgy behind the work, and the reasons exhaust systems fail. (Incidentally, he said that the best thing that EVER happened to their business was everyone running "lean of peak" and driving their EGTs up above 1500 degrees. As temperatures approach 1600 degrees, the metal simply starts to fail, and you end up saving pennies on gas, and blowing dollars on exhaust systems.) My A&P put everything back together yesterday, and Atlas is now snug back in his hangar, with a new exhaust, new oil/filter, new Iridium spark plugs, and (hopefully) no more oil leak. Now all we need is some flying weather! -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#2
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
Sounds like my A&P too my bag of pranuts
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:ywRtf.692885$xm3.601961@attbi_s21... Steve wished Mary and the kids a happy new year, gave each of us a bag of peanuts (which they apparently always throw in the box -- it's a Dawley tradition that goes way back to their beginning), and charged us $620. Not cheap, by any stretch, but still way cheaper than new. |
#3
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
Jay Honeck wrote: (Incidentally, he said that the best thing that EVER happened to their business was everyone running "lean of peak" and driving their EGTs up above 1500 degrees. As temperatures approach 1600 degrees, the metal simply starts to fail, and you end up saving pennies on gas, and blowing dollars on exhaust systems.) Done improperly LOP will start to melt exhaust systems. If you're getting over 1500 EGT then you're not LOP, you're at peak. 75 LOP is the same temp as 75 ROP. |
#4
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
(Incidentally, he said that the best thing that EVER happened to
their business was everyone running "lean of peak" and driving their EGTs up above 1500 degrees. As temperatures approach 1600 degrees, the metal simply starts to fail, and you end up saving pennies on gas, and blowing dollars on exhaust systems.) 1600º is LOR (Lean of Rich) not LOP. 1600º is right at peak, as has been stated. My engine typically peaks at 1590º. With the BMP (Big Mixture Pull), I go from ROP through Peak to well LOP in about one second. Yesterday on my flight I was running at 1490º, or 100º LOP. Now, if I run it 100º ROP, what will my EGT read ? BTW - my CHTs were 320º. --- Ken Reed |
#5
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
Jay Honeck wrote:
All in all, a very pleasant experience, and a real pleasure to work with a guy that's so knowledgeable. In answer to questions, Steve went on at great length about the metallurgy behind the work, and the reasons exhaust systems fail. (Incidentally, he said that the best thing that EVER happened to their business was everyone running "lean of peak" and driving their EGTs up above 1500 degrees. As temperatures approach 1600 degrees, the metal simply starts to fail, and you end up saving pennies on gas, and blowing dollars on exhaust systems.) That's funny as this isn't supported by the data the GAMI folks have taken. It shows the EGTs being pretty much symmetrical about the peak. So if you go lean of peak far enough you should be able to pretty much equal the temps seen on the rich side of peak. And CHTs are actually lower on the lean side so you should be saving your cylinder heads some grief. http://www.gami.com/frames.htm Now if folks are running "at peak", then I see Steve's point, however, "lean of peak" doesn't have to be problem if done properly. Matt |
#6
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
Newps wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote: (Incidentally, he said that the best thing that EVER happened to their business was everyone running "lean of peak" and driving their EGTs up above 1500 degrees. As temperatures approach 1600 degrees, the metal simply starts to fail, and you end up saving pennies on gas, and blowing dollars on exhaust systems.) Done improperly LOP will start to melt exhaust systems. If you're getting over 1500 EGT then you're not LOP, you're at peak. 75 LOP is the same temp as 75 ROP. Not the same. It is better as you have the same EGT with much lower CHTs. Matt |
#7
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
"Newps" wrote in message ... Jay Honeck wrote: (Incidentally, he said that the best thing that EVER happened to their business was everyone running "lean of peak" and driving their EGTs up above 1500 degrees. As temperatures approach 1600 degrees, the metal simply starts to fail, and you end up saving pennies on gas, and blowing dollars on exhaust systems.) Done improperly LOP will start to melt exhaust systems. If you're getting over 1500 EGT then you're not LOP, you're at peak. 75 LOP is the same temp as 75 ROP. The PROPER way is not so much running ROP or LOP but rather the transition from full rich to LOP - it has to be done quickly, like 3-4 seconds ("The Big Pull" as Deakin describes it). Where jus about everyone gets into trouble is running near peak (i.e., just a few degrees either side). Jay is merely parroting the OWT and misinformation that has been running around out there for _years_. -- Matt --------------------- Matthew W. Barrow Site-Fill Homes, LLC. Montrose, CO |
#8
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... Jay Honeck wrote: All in all, a very pleasant experience, and a real pleasure to work with a guy that's so knowledgeable. In answer to questions, Steve went on at great length about the metallurgy behind the work, and the reasons exhaust systems fail. (Incidentally, he said that the best thing that EVER happened to their business was everyone running "lean of peak" and driving their EGTs up above 1500 degrees. As temperatures approach 1600 degrees, the metal simply starts to fail, and you end up saving pennies on gas, and blowing dollars on exhaust systems.) That's funny as this isn't supported by the data the GAMI folks have taken. It shows the EGTs being pretty much symmetrical about the peak. So if you go lean of peak far enough you should be able to pretty much equal the temps seen on the rich side of peak. And CHTs are actually lower on the lean side so you should be saving your cylinder heads some grief. http://www.gami.com/frames.htm Now if folks are running "at peak", then I see Steve's point, however, "lean of peak" doesn't have to be problem if done properly. Here's the summary: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html or, I you prefer, here's the Printer Friendly version: http://www.avweb.com/cgi-bin/udt/im....ry.id=1820 84 Read the graphs and charts. -- Matt --------------------- Matthew W. Barrow Site-Fill Homes, LLC. Montrose, CO |
#9
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:ywRtf.692885$xm3.601961@attbi_s21... All in all, a very pleasant experience, and a real pleasure to work with a guy that's so knowledgeable. In answer to questions, Steve went on at great length about the metallurgy behind the work, and the reasons exhaust systems fail. (Incidentally, he said that the best thing that EVER happened to their business was everyone running "lean of peak" and driving their EGTs up above 1500 degrees. As temperatures approach 1600 degrees, the metal simply starts to fail, and you end up saving pennies on gas, and blowing dollars on exhaust systems.) Yeah...he's really knowledgeable....on myths and legends. -- Matt --------------------- Matthew W. Barrow Site-Fill Homes, LLC. Montrose, CO |
#10
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
All in all, a very pleasant experience, and a real pleasure to work with
a guy that's so knowledgeable. In answer to questions, Steve went on at great length about the metallurgy behind the work, and the reasons exhaust systems fail. (Incidentally, he said that the best thing that EVER happened to their business was everyone running "lean of peak" and driving their EGTs up above 1500 degrees. As temperatures approach 1600 degrees, the metal simply starts to fail, and you end up saving pennies on gas, and blowing dollars on exhaust systems.) Yeah...he's really knowledgeable....on myths and legends. Well, I suspect what he *means* is that people are leaning incorrectly in attempting to run LOP, and/or they are trying to run LOP with carbureted engines. Everyone is trying to save fuel nowadays, with avgas so high, and people are simply cooking their exhausts systems in the process. Steve has no reason to lie (in fact, he has every reason to say just the opposite!) -- and, as sales manager of the largest exhaust shop in the world, I suspect he has figured out where his customers are coming from. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
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