Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
A. Smith wrote:
"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

Jay is merely parroting the OWT and misinformation that has been running
around out there for _years_.


Jay quotes an expert in the field and you accuse him of parroting
misinformation? LOP is good when properly done, but I think the
statement from Dawley says it is NOT being properly done for the most
part. The company I work for overhauls 400+ aircraft engines a year.
Our teardown shop can tell you which ones have been ran LOP and which
have not.

I think the point is that it is the temperatue seen by the exhaust pipe
that matters, not whether it is LOP or ROP. And the temps mentioned by
Mr. Dawley sound more like runnint at peak, rather than either side.
People seem to automatically blame running on the lead side and that
simply isn't supported by the data. It is an old wives tale pure and
simple.


Matt

Which is my point, people think they know how to run LOP but actually are
running at peak, causing damage. The guy at Dawley didn't say running LOP
did the damage, just that when the LOP operation began being pushed is when
the damage started showing up.

Allen

A. Smith wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

How do you design an engine to run LOP?


Matt


Compression ratio, cumbustion chamber shape, valve placement, valve
material, crankshaft counterweight design...............................

Example?

Matt

How do you design an engine to run LOP?

Compression ratio, cumbustion chamber shape, valve placement, valve
material, crankshaft counterweight design...............................

Example?

The original Continental in the original Malibu.

john smith wrote:
How do you design an engine to run LOP?


Compression ratio, cumbustion chamber shape, valve placement, valve
material, crankshaft counterweight design...............................


Example?


The original Continental in the original Malibu.

I've seen a claim to this effect on Avweb, but haven't seen anything
from TCM. Do you have any data from them that claims this engine was
designed differently for LOP operation? I'd like to see more details.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
A. Smith wrote:

Really? How?


I suggest that if you are really interested in this you get with Lycoming
or TCM and see what they suggest for your engine. There are only a
handful of engines that were designed to be ran LOP.

How do you design an engine to run LOP?


So much for "expertise".


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"john smith" wrote in message
...
How do you design an engine to run LOP?

Compression ratio, cumbustion chamber shape, valve placement, valve
material, crankshaft counterweight
design...............................

Example?

The original Continental in the original Malibu.

Was configured to run LOP, not designed for it.

"A. Smith" wrote in message
om...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

I think the point is that it is the temperatue seen by the exhaust pipe
that matters, not whether it is LOP or ROP. And the temps mentioned by
Mr. Dawley sound more like runnint at peak, rather than either side.
People seem to automatically blame running on the lead side and that
simply isn't supported by the data. It is an old wives tale pure and
simple.


Matt

Which is my point, people think they know how to run LOP but actually are
running at peak, causing damage. The guy at Dawley didn't say running LOP
did the damage, just that when the LOP operation began being pushed is
when the damage started showing up.

That's a nice stretch of the original quote....and I've heard of mechanics
finding all sorts of damages from running LOP when the engine was not run
LOP at all. It's been a favorite excuse for years.

Remember that for YEARS, the favorite leaning technique was to lean to peak,
then enrich slightly (which would put temps at about 50ROP, the "Red Box"

Red Box = No Fly Zone
At and below about 60% power, there is no red box.
At about 65% power or so, 100ºF ROP to Peak.
At about 70%, 125ºF ROP to 25ºF LOP.
At about 75%, 180ºF ROP to 40ºF LOP.
At about 80%, 200ºF ROP to 60ºF LOP


Before you stick your foot into it even deeper, read this and pay particular
attention to the charts and graphs:
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html

Don't worry about the text so much as the graphical data.

1600º is LOR (Lean of Rich) not LOP. 1600º is right at peak, as has been

That's funny!

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"A. Smith" wrote in message
om...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

I think the point is that it is the temperatue seen by the exhaust pipe
that matters, not whether it is LOP or ROP. And the temps mentioned by
Mr. Dawley sound more like runnint at peak, rather than either side.
People seem to automatically blame running on the lead side and that
simply isn't supported by the data. It is an old wives tale pure and
simple.


Matt

Which is my point, people think they know how to run LOP but actually are
running at peak, causing damage. The guy at Dawley didn't say running
LOP did the damage, just that when the LOP operation began being pushed
is when the damage started showing up.

That's a nice stretch of the original quote....and I've heard of mechanics
finding all sorts of damages from running LOP when the engine was not run
LOP at all. It's been a favorite excuse for years.

Remember that for YEARS, the favorite leaning technique was to lean to
peak, then enrich slightly (which would put temps at about 50ROP, the "Red
Box"

Red Box = No Fly Zone
At and below about 60% power, there is no red box.
At about 65% power or so, 100ºF ROP to Peak.
At about 70%, 125ºF ROP to 25ºF LOP.
At about 75%, 180ºF ROP to 40ºF LOP.
At about 80%, 200ºF ROP to 60ºF LOP

Which orifice did you pull these numbers from?

Before you stick your foot into it even deeper, read this and pay
particular attention to the charts and graphs:
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html

Don't worry about the text so much as the graphical data.


Do you even bother to read what you cite? Look at the gauges in the
aircraft panel in the article you quote. The LH EGT shows 1595 degrees and
the RH shows 1585 degrees. Both seem pretty near the 1600 degrees that
softens stainless. Why do they use these particular power settings? To
manipulate the data in their favor.

Matt Barrow wrote:

it has to be done quickly, like 3-4 seconds ("The
Big Pull" as Deakin describes it).

When flying with an engine equipped with their turbo-normalization system,
Tornado Alley recommends the pull from full rich to LOP take about 6
seconds.


--
Peter