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#51
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
In a previous article, "Douglas Paterson" said:
"caleb" wrote in message roups.com... 3) "cleared to land on any runway" #3 doesn't bother me if it's the "field is wide open land wherever you want" variety; if it's the "you have big problems, go ahead and land wherever you can, trucks are rolling" sort, then it's no fun! I still like the fact that Captain Haines had enough cool to say "You want to be particular and make it a runway, huh?" It's hard to overstate what heros that whole crew were. -- Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/ Every fleeting thought you've ever had in your life, no matter how bizarre, is someone's lifelong obsession. And he has a website. -- Skif's Internet Theorem |
#52
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
Heh. That's the big question, of course!
Please check out a thread I just started, "Resource for choosing a plane?" In short, I'm looking for a comparison tool to help narrow the choices--I'm a bit overwhelmed by this most basic of questions you've asked! Thanks.... -- Doug "Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight Zone" (my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change to contact me) "Montblack" wrote in message ... ("Douglas Paterson" wrote) [snip] (my first post to r.a.o, seems like a pleasant bunch in here; getting back into GA after several years' absence; wannabe/hopeful soon-to-be owner) What do you have your eye on? Montblack |
#53
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
"Douglas Paterson" wrote in message ... My personal least-favorite (which I've received twice): "Cleared to land runway XX; land at your own risk" -- given by tower when wx drops below published mins (above mins when approach started, broke out at/before reaching DH [despite "official" wx]). No big deal, I guess, but the "at your own risk" wording sure got our attention!! What tower uses that wording? |
#54
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
"Douglas Paterson" wrote in message ... My personal least-favorite (which I've received twice): "Cleared to land runway XX; land at your own risk" -- given by tower when wx drops below published mins (above mins when approach started, broke out at/before reaching DH [despite "official" wx]). No big deal, I guess, but the "at your own risk" wording sure got our attention!! No tower says that when the runway is open. |
#55
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net... "Douglas Paterson" wrote in message ... My personal least-favorite (which I've received twice): "Cleared to land runway XX; land at your own risk" -- given by tower when wx drops below published mins (above mins when approach started, broke out at/before reaching DH [despite "official" wx]). No big deal, I guess, but the "at your own risk" wording sure got our attention!! What tower uses that wording? First time I heard it was McConnell AFB, Wichita, KS (KIAB). Training sortie, KC-135, we were shooting the full VOR procedure, so several minutes had elapsed between being cleared for the approach and switching over to tower. We actually already had the runway more or less in sight when they called out the weather (below mins; heavy rainshowers) and asked us for our intentions. When we said we intended to complete the approach and full-stop, they came back with "Roger, Turbo XX, cleared to land runway 35L; land at your own risk." For whatever reason, the "official" weather was wrong, we had plenty of visibility. Landed uneventfully, were asked for a PIREP, but they didn't change anything based on our input, at least while we were still on frequency. I'd never heard that before ("at your own risk"), and we had them repeat--got the same verbiage. I queried tower on the phone after landing, they explained (and cited an appropriate reg) that it essentially means "hey, we told you the weather's below mins; you fly your airplane, we don't mind if you land on our runway." That clearance may or may not exist in the civilian world, I don't know. USAF flies under its own rules--they mirror both FAA and ICAO regs, but there are plenty of subtle differences (as there are between FAA and ICAO). I have an easier time sorting out the differences between NFL and college ball! That, actually, is a subject to which I will have to dedicate some serious study as I ease back into GA.... Second time was at Al Udeid AB, near Doha, Qatar (OTBH). Operational sortie, KC-135 again, returning from an Enduring Freedom mission. We got handed off to tower (USAF controllers in a Qatari tower), who told us vis was below minimums (that area gets some wicked shallow morning fog; vertical vis typically more-or-less unimpeded, horizontal can go to near zero). We told them we'd continue and evaluate visibility on final, which got us the "at your own risk" clearance. Having heard it before, I got to explain what that meant to the rest of the crew! Landed uneventfully, were asked for a PIREP, they immediately changed the "official" visibility to match our observation. -- Doug "Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight Zone" (my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change to contact me) |
#56
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
Au contraire. Please read my response to Steven's question....
-- Doug "Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight Zone" (my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change to contact me) "Newps" wrote in message ... "Douglas Paterson" wrote in message ... My personal least-favorite (which I've received twice): "Cleared to land runway XX; land at your own risk" -- given by tower when wx drops below published mins (above mins when approach started, broke out at/before reaching DH [despite "official" wx]). No big deal, I guess, but the "at your own risk" wording sure got our attention!! No tower says that when the runway is open. |
#57
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
"Douglas Paterson" wrote in message ... First time I heard it was McConnell AFB, Wichita, KS (KIAB). Training sortie, KC-135, we were shooting the full VOR procedure, so several minutes had elapsed between being cleared for the approach and switching over to tower. We actually already had the runway more or less in sight when they called out the weather (below mins; heavy rainshowers) and asked us for our intentions. When we said we intended to complete the approach and full-stop, they came back with "Roger, Turbo XX, cleared to land runway 35L; land at your own risk." For whatever reason, the "official" weather was wrong, we had plenty of visibility. Landed uneventfully, were asked for a PIREP, but they didn't change anything based on our input, at least while we were still on frequency. I'd never heard that before ("at your own risk"), and we had them repeat--got the same verbiage. I queried tower on the phone after landing, they explained (and cited an appropriate reg) that it essentially means "hey, we told you the weather's below mins; you fly your airplane, we don't mind if you land on our runway." That clearance may or may not exist in the civilian world, I don't know. USAF flies under its own rules--they mirror both FAA and ICAO regs, but there are plenty of subtle differences (as there are between FAA and ICAO). I have an easier time sorting out the differences between NFL and college ball! That, actually, is a subject to which I will have to dedicate some serious study as I ease back into GA.... Second time was at Al Udeid AB, near Doha, Qatar (OTBH). Operational sortie, KC-135 again, returning from an Enduring Freedom mission. We got handed off to tower (USAF controllers in a Qatari tower), who told us vis was below minimums (that area gets some wicked shallow morning fog; vertical vis typically more-or-less unimpeded, horizontal can go to near zero). We told them we'd continue and evaluate visibility on final, which got us the "at your own risk" clearance. Having heard it before, I got to explain what that meant to the rest of the crew! Landed uneventfully, were asked for a PIREP, they immediately changed the "official" visibility to match our observation. So someone within the USAF thought USAF tower controllers should inform flight crews that landing was at their own risk when the weather was below approach minimums? What does that mean, exactly? Does someone else assume the risk when weather is above approach minimums? That phraseology doesn't exist in the civilian world, but it's not because the USAF "flies under its own rules." All controllers in the US are required to provide services in accordance with FAA Order 7110.65, it doesn't matter if they wear a uniform. |
#58
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
Douglas Paterson wrote:
I'd never heard that before ("at your own risk"), and we had them repeat--got the same verbiage. I queried tower on the phone after landing, they explained (and cited an appropriate reg) that it essentially means "hey, we told you the weather's below mins; you fly your airplane, we don't mind if you land on our runway." That clearance may or may not exist in the civilian world, I don't know. USAF flies under its own rules--they mirror both FAA and ICAO regs, but there are plenty of subtle differences (as there are between FAA and ICAO). I have an easier time sorting out the differences between NFL and college ball! That, actually, is a subject to which I will have to dedicate some serious study as I ease back into GA.... I've not heard that before either, but I'd never heard "check gear down" before I flew into a military field either. And this was in a 182 which made it even more comical. Matt |
#59
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Douglas Paterson" wrote in message ... First time I heard it was McConnell AFB, Wichita, KS (KIAB). Training sortie, KC-135, we were shooting the full VOR procedure, so several minutes had elapsed between being cleared for the approach and switching over to tower. We actually already had the runway more or less in sight when they called out the weather (below mins; heavy rainshowers) and asked us for our intentions. When we said we intended to complete the approach and full-stop, they came back with "Roger, Turbo XX, cleared to land runway 35L; land at your own risk." For whatever reason, the "official" weather was wrong, we had plenty of visibility. Landed uneventfully, were asked for a PIREP, but they didn't change anything based on our input, at least while we were still on frequency. I'd never heard that before ("at your own risk"), and we had them repeat--got the same verbiage. I queried tower on the phone after landing, they explained (and cited an appropriate reg) that it essentially means "hey, we told you the weather's below mins; you fly your airplane, we don't mind if you land on our runway." That clearance may or may not exist in the civilian world, I don't know. USAF flies under its own rules--they mirror both FAA and ICAO regs, but there are plenty of subtle differences (as there are between FAA and ICAO). I have an easier time sorting out the differences between NFL and college ball! That, actually, is a subject to which I will have to dedicate some serious study as I ease back into GA.... Second time was at Al Udeid AB, near Doha, Qatar (OTBH). Operational sortie, KC-135 again, returning from an Enduring Freedom mission. We got handed off to tower (USAF controllers in a Qatari tower), who told us vis was below minimums (that area gets some wicked shallow morning fog; vertical vis typically more-or-less unimpeded, horizontal can go to near zero). We told them we'd continue and evaluate visibility on final, which got us the "at your own risk" clearance. Having heard it before, I got to explain what that meant to the rest of the crew! Landed uneventfully, were asked for a PIREP, they immediately changed the "official" visibility to match our observation. So someone within the USAF thought USAF tower controllers should inform flight crews that landing was at their own risk when the weather was below approach minimums? What does that mean, exactly? Does someone else assume the risk when weather is above approach minimums? That phraseology doesn't exist in the civilian world, but it's not because the USAF "flies under its own rules." All controllers in the US are required to provide services in accordance with FAA Order 7110.65, it doesn't matter if they wear a uniform. Does 7110.65 prohibit saying "check gear down?" Matt |
#60
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Least favorite ATC instructions... ... ...
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:55:37 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:
I've not heard that before either, but I'd never heard "check gear down" before I flew into a military field either. And this was in a 182 which made it even more comical. I got this on my Beech Sundowner at GLH which is a commercial airport. Tower got a chuckle when I replied "fixed and welded." Maybe he thought I was a Sierra, who knows :-) Allen |
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