Attitude indicators

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 20:40:56 GMT, Roger Halstead
wrote:

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:46:01 +0100, "Manuel"
wrote:

"R&A Kyle" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
A typical AI display is "inside out", ie the view is from inside the plane
looking out. Some (Russian) aircraft use the reverse display, ie a fixed

My Debonair had the reverse display as original.
I did have some photos up on the web, but eventaully took them down. I
updated the DG early on to the modern style.

If any one want's to see what they look like I can easily put them
back...if I can find the photos.

I updated the photos and uploaded the htm file so for any one that is
interested here are a couple of good shots of the old style, "outside
looking in" AI
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/gauges.htm

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers

Thanks, Roger. Just looking at the old AI seem more "right" to me than the
current ones. I wonder if there was human perception factors research done
on the AI's to determine which depiction is most intuitive?

JimC

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:18:46 -0600, "James M. Knox"
wrote:

"JimC" wrote in
:

Interesting point. I do remember when I first started flying I
thought the AI should work like the turn coordinator. It seemed more
natural for me to think of how the plane was doing relative to the
horizon rather than how the horizon was doing relative to the plane.
It likely varies from one person to the next, but I think I would have
been happy had the AI been built, as you say, "outside-in".

I'm with you. For some reason I have to FORCE myself to correctly
interpret the standard AI. It has *always* seemed backwards to me.

Logically, I don't know why. I am "fixed" in the plane and seeing the
background of the AI as a virtual "outside the window horizon" should be
perfectly natural... but for me it just doesn't work well. [And yes, I
fly
a lot of hard IFR. G]

Hey! Do I have a deal for you:-))

I have one of the outside in AIs setting on the work bench. Fully
operational, but old. Looks to be in good shape. I took it out of the
Debonair early on.

The photos aren't the best, but they show the difference.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/gauges.htm


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

Roger Halstead writes:
The photos aren't the best, but they show the difference.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/gauges.htm

Roger,
The text on the web page says they show a "nose up attitude and
slight bank to the left". Surely you mean a "slight bank to the right"? If it
really is a slight bank to the left, I'm not surprised that there were
accidents changing to and from these gauges. I personally think that there is
no "right" answer for the inside/outside perception thing, but that it's like
track up/north up on maps. I find north up more intuitive, but I also find
the inside-out AI more intuitive than the outside-in turn coordinator.

a.

On 09 Dec 2003 23:39:51 -0800, Angus Duggan
wrote:

Roger Halstead writes:
The photos aren't the best, but they show the difference.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/gauges.htm

Roger,
The text on the web page says they show a "nose up attitude and
slight bank to the left". Surely you mean a "slight bank to the right"? If it
really is a slight bank to the left, I'm not surprised that there were
accidents changing to and from these gauges. I personally think that there is
no "right" answer for the inside/outside perception thing, but that it's like
track up/north up on maps. I find north up more intuitive, but I also find
the inside-out AI more intuitive than the outside-in turn coordinator.

Oops...I replaced the photos last night...bout 2:00 AM or so and
neither compared the position of the indicator with the old photos, or
bothered to read the text. sheesh That's what I get for staying up
so late.

Hmmm gotta go fix a page.

Thanks for bringing that up.

It was right for the previous photos, but the photos weren't real
sharp. (lots of reflections)

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers

a.

On 09 Dec 2003 23:39:51 -0800, Angus Duggan
wrote:

Roger Halstead writes:
The photos aren't the best, but they show the difference.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/gauges.htm

All fixed! I hope.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers


Roger,
The text on the web page says they show a "nose up attitude and
slight bank to the left". Surely you mean a "slight bank to the right"? If it
really is a slight bank to the left, I'm not surprised that there were
accidents changing to and from these gauges. I personally think that there is
no "right" answer for the inside/outside perception thing, but that it's like
track up/north up on maps. I find north up more intuitive, but I also find
the inside-out AI more intuitive than the outside-in turn coordinator.

a.

Roger Halstead writes:
The photos aren't the best, but they show the difference.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/gauges.htm


At first glance it gave me the impration that it was nose down with a right
bank. After looking at it for a moment I noticed my error. I'm going to
attibute the error to the fact that the face of the AI is convex.