Electronic Airport Facility Directories ("A/FDs")

I'll start with a rant; it's disturbing to find that the Department of
Transportation ("DOT") does not release the AFDs in a useable digital
format.

The DOT cannot legally copyright the AFD, so AFAIK anyone is free to
tear the binding off, scan it, and redistribute it. Is anyone doing
this?

Airnav.com is useful, considering it's the closest thing to a
publication of similar information (and non-raster, which is even
better). However, the keyword is "similar". Airnav makes no
guarantees about providing the same information as the AFD. Can a
pilot legally use airnav's publications instead of the AFD, and still
be compliant with FAR 91.103?

I would guess not, considering the Airnav's caution about the currency
of the information. Any case law on this?

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Justin Gombos wrote:
I'll start with a rant; it's disturbing to find that the Department of
Transportation ("DOT") does not release the AFDs in a useable digital
format.

Of course they do. Where do you think places like Airnav get their data
from? True, it's not 100% of everything that's in the AF/D, but it's most
of it. The FAA has been getting steadily better about stuff like this.
You can download PDFs of all the approach plates. You can download
sectionals. You can download the entire nav database (every airport, fix,
navaid, airway, etc, in excruciating detail). You just have to do your
homework to find it.

The DOT cannot legally copyright the AFD, so AFAIK anyone is free to
tear the binding off, scan it, and redistribute it. Is anyone doing
this?

Of course somebody could do it. But I can't imagine anybody would want to.
Scanned images of the pages??? It's hard to think of a more bizarre way to
waste perfectly good electrons.

Airnav.com is useful, considering it's the closest thing to a
publication of similar information (and non-raster, which is even
better). However, the keyword is "similar". Airnav makes no
guarantees about providing the same information as the AFD. Can a
pilot legally use airnav's publications instead of the AFD, and still
be compliant with FAR 91.103?

If you want to play lawyer games, keep buying the green book. If you
simply want to get the useful information you need to conduct your flight
safely, go to Airnav, or places like it. If you think you can do a better
job than Airnav, go download the raw data, spend $9.99 to register a domain
name, and go into competition with them.

On 2006-04-07, Roy Smith wrote:
Justin Gombos wrote:

I'll start with a rant; it's disturbing to find that the Department
of Transportation ("DOT") does not release the AFDs in a useable
digital format.

Of course they do.

Have a link for that?

Where do you think places like Airnav get their data from?

I don't think Airnav gets the information from DOT - I think they get
it from the FAA.

True, it's not 100% of everything that's in the AF/D, but it's most
of it.

I doubt that getting "most of it" adequitely complies with FAR 91.103.

The FAA has been getting steadily better about stuff like this.

Perhaps, but the DOT seems to be stuck in the 80s.

You can download PDFs of all the approach plates. You can download
sectionals. You can download the entire nav database (every
airport, fix, navaid, airway, etc, in excruciating detail). You
just have to do your homework to find it.

In that case, consider this thread "my homework".

The DOT cannot legally copyright the AFD, so AFAIK anyone is free
to tear the binding off, scan it, and redistribute it. Is anyone
doing this?

Of course somebody could do it. But I can't imagine anybody would
want to. Scanned images of the pages??? It's hard to think of a
more bizarre way to waste perfectly good electrons.

Fortunately, machines and electrons don't get tired. Drop a stack of
papers on an ADF, and it will go until the stack is empty. The cost
of a few electrons? You can figure it's negligable (and cheaper than
the material wasted in the production of the green book).

If you want to play lawyer games, keep buying the green book. If
you simply want to get the useful information you need to conduct
your flight safely, go to Airnav, or places like it. If you think
you can do a better job than Airnav, go download the raw data, spend
$9.99 to register a domain name, and go into competition with them.

Call them spoiled, but some pilots might want to be both practical
(that is, making use of electronic AFDs) and lawful at the same time.
Are you saying this isn't possible?

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In article GJCZf.872$Fp4.847@trnddc01,
Justin Gombos wrote:

You can download PDFs of all the approach plates. You can download
sectionals. You can download the entire nav database (every
airport, fix, navaid, airway, etc, in excruciating detail). You
just have to do your homework to find it.

In that case, consider this thread "my homework".


Well, here's some places to start:

http://avn.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=nac...ectional_Raste
r
https://www2.nima.mil/products/digitalaero/index.cfm
http://www.naco.faa.gov/ap_diagrams_...ch=&select =&
submit1=Search
http://www.fly.faa.gov/Products/Code...eferred_Routes
_Database/nfdc_preferred_routes_database.html

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 23:38:14 GMT, Justin Gombos
wrote in GJCZf.872$Fp4.847@trnddc01::

I don't think Airnav gets the information from DOT - I think they get
it from the FAA.

Isn't that like saying cars aren't manufactured by General Motors;
they come from Chevrolet and Buick? While strictly true, it fails to
draw a revenant distinction. Or am I missing your point?

On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 06:08:14 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote in ::

revenant

That should have been 'relevant.'

On 2006-04-08, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 23:38:14 GMT, Justin Gombos
wrote in GJCZf.872$Fp4.847@trnddc01::

I don't think Airnav gets the information from DOT - I think they get
it from the FAA.

Isn't that like saying cars aren't manufactured by General Motors;
they come from Chevrolet and Buick? While strictly true, it fails
to draw a revenant distinction. Or am I missing your point?

The issue there is that the AFD is a compilation of information from
different sources, one of which is the FAA. Moreover, even if we
could assume that the DOTs sole source of information were available
digitally the FAA, the FAAs digital products are not necessarily in a
format that's readily useable.

Information slips through the cracks as a result of this arrangement.
For example, you won't find hours of operation for control towers on
the myafd.com pages.

It's wasteful as well as error prone to have multiple organizations
repeating the work of the DOT.

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On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 14:31:43 GMT, Justin Gombos
wrote in
jPPZf.2206$XI6.1173@trnddc05::

The issue there is that the AFD is a compilation of information from
different sources, one of which is the FAA.

What are the others?

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 14:31:43 GMT, Justin Gombos
wrote in
jPPZf.2206$XI6.1173@trnddc05::

The issue there is that the AFD is a compilation of information from
different sources, one of which is the FAA.

What are the others?

No, Larry. You're not supposed to ask that. Steve's supposed to ask that.

Justin Gombos wrote:
On 2006-04-07, Roy Smith wrote:
Justin Gombos wrote:
I'll start with a rant; it's disturbing to find that the Department
of Transportation ("DOT") does not release the AFDs in a useable
digital format.
Of course they do.

Have a link for that?


Sites like airnav get their airport and navaid info from the FAA
Aeronautical Information Services ATA-100 database. The AIS is,
according to their website is the "single authoritative government
source for collecting, validating, storing, maintaining and
disseminating aeronautical data concerning the United States"

http://www.faa.gov/ATS/ata/ata100/index.html

You can get the ATA-100 through a subscription CD service or also if you
register for FTP access. The databases have also been re-published
online at:

http://aviationtoolbox.org/raw_data/FAA/ATA-100/

A word of warning though, the raw airport info is contained in a text
file that is 140 Mb when uncompressed. Opening it in windows notepad is
probably not a good idea.

My interpretation is that this data is just as legal as a paper AF/D
since this is the official source of the AF/D. So you can probably
argue that as long as you can verify that the source database is
current, using a website like airnav which parses the database for you
is also legal.

- Ray


--
***************************
Raymond Woo
e-mail: raywoo|at|gmail.com
http://gromit.stanford.edu/ray