who uses FSS?

In article eFreb.28134$AH4.6479@lakeread06, "Robert Henry"
wrote:

I thought Mitre was working to answer this very question....

Really? Do you have a CAASD POC for this?




If you want to fly into or out of the DC ADIZ, you have to talk to flight
service. DUATS CANNOT be used to file any flight plan (IFR/VFR) in or
out
of the ADIZ.

Frankly, I like the discussion to validate what I think I know about the
weather, and then I ask for a complete list of TFRs and/or any new TFRs
for
the route(s) of flight one last time.

"McGregor" wrote in message
link.net...

So... is FSS just there to a) cover your ass in case of an incident
("pilot
called FSS and got a full weather briefing prior to departing into
known
icing/TFR/hurricane etc.") b) accept flight plans?




--
Bob Noel

Dan Thompson wrote:
I agree with you, Michael. It's much faster to phone FSS compared to Duats.
I usually do it on my cell while driving to the airport, so zero time added.
I usually check Intellicast Nexrad on the computer before I call to get the
big picture.

You must be better than I am at assimilating spoken data. I need pictures and
written text. It's hard enough trying to comprehend all that voice input when
I'm sitting down at a desk, let alone while driving.

Well, I guess it's no worse than trying to make sense of an airborne update
while flying, but I find that ineffective, too. At least in that case I already
have a background of understanding the general weather picture.

I also am immersed in a computer environment all day, so it's little to no extra
hassle to get an online briefing. There's no setup time. Phoning FSS, on the
other hand, I have to navigate voicemail-hell.

Dave

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

I use FSS for briefings all the time. I also supplement with CIRRUS (DUATS)
maps.

One advantage the FSS has over me is that they have been looking at the weather
all day. They already know what to look for, what to leave out, what to
ignore. For me it would be the first or second time I've seen the weather, and
I'd have to actually look through reams of printout for every airport in the
area in case there was a surprise which could be significant. FSS has already
done this and won't read 150 almost identical weather reports from nearby
stations, but will read the few that matter.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"McGregor" wrote in message
link.net

Then I call flight service and listen to the guy/girl give me this
wildly generalized briefing that usually doesn't tell me very much.

Last time I was in a flight service station (2000 I think) they were
still using IBM CRTs with textual info, so I don't know how they can
give anyone a very precise route briefing.

Coupla points here. First, all these briefers are (supposed to be, at
least) trained meteorologists. Second, FSS is (hopefully) getting real-time
updates from PIREPs to help fill in the weather picture. Third, the
Leesburg AFSS station, for one, definitely has full color radar/satellite
weather pictures available on everything from the national to the very local
level. As others said, the text-only interface is used to input flight
plans and to pull up TAFs, NOTAMs and winds aloft during my briefings.

So... is FSS just there to a) cover your ass in case of an incident
("pilot called FSS and got a full weather briefing prior to departing
into known icing/TFR/hurricane etc.") b) accept flight plans?

Remember that FSS also helps coordinate SAR efforts and helps pilots in
distress. You've also alluded to their usefulness for Flight Watch.

Of course, my experience is almost certainly skewed due to the fact that I
actually fly out of Leesburg (JYO) and have the luxury of walking up to the
counter for a personal briefing. I would probably share a lot of the
frustrations of many other users if I had to use the phone every time I
wanted to talk to them.

Even with the personal service, though, I still use DUATS more often than
not to get a "briefing" before going to the airport. That usually saves me
some surprises during my FSS briefing.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
__________

Roy Smith wrote:

wrote:
The one essential role, though of the FSS, is when it is the only RCO
on a non-towered, IFR airport (example, KBIH). Center often hands
you off to the FSS for IFR ATC relay purposes well before you begin
the approach. Likewise, on IFR departure, you're with the FSS for
quite a time at some of these airports.

I never saw the point of these FSS RCOs. From a technology point of
view, once you've got the automated radio gear on the field, it's just
as easy to run a land-line circuit direct to ATC as it is to run it to
FSS.

The FSS can provide services for VFR flight plans and weather. In a remote
area where only the center were linked to the RCO the center controller
would end up with that burden. Plus, if radar coverage is nonexistant
until in the low flight levels, such as at KBIH, the relay works and frees
up the center controller working traffic from having to work the non-radar
arrivals and departures directly.

The only time I find ii difficult is when they describe a weather pattern,
like a front as being "30 SE of Tyler to 40 N of Lubbock to 20 W of
Midland...." I do a fair amount of flying in areas I am not familiar with
the waypoints, so this is kind of useless.

When they are done with all that I usually just ask is that in my route of
flight? "Yes."

All right, how should I change my flight plan to avoid the weather? Good
briefers have always responded with a new flight plan option, which I then
have them modify in my filed plan. The advantage over maps for me is that
they are forecasting the movement of the front as they offer the new plan.
In this case, since there is obviously significant weather involved, I'll
take the new plan to a computer and look at what I'm getting into.

Michael


"Dave Butler" wrote in message
...
Dan Thompson wrote:

You must be better than I am at assimilating spoken data. I need pictures
and
written text. It's hard enough trying to comprehend all that voice input
when
I'm sitting down at a desk, let alone while driving.

FSS specialists are NOT trained meteorologists. They are trained in
interpreting the data that they are given by the NWS.

Bob Gardner

"John T" wrote in message
ws.com...
"McGregor" wrote in message
link.net

Then I call flight service and listen to the guy/girl give me this
wildly generalized briefing that usually doesn't tell me very much.

Last time I was in a flight service station (2000 I think) they were
still using IBM CRTs with textual info, so I don't know how they can
give anyone a very precise route briefing.

Coupla points here. First, all these briefers are (supposed to be, at
least) trained meteorologists. Second, FSS is (hopefully) getting
real-time
updates from PIREPs to help fill in the weather picture. Third, the
Leesburg AFSS station, for one, definitely has full color radar/satellite
weather pictures available on everything from the national to the very
local
level. As others said, the text-only interface is used to input flight
plans and to pull up TAFs, NOTAMs and winds aloft during my briefings.

So... is FSS just there to a) cover your ass in case of an incident
("pilot called FSS and got a full weather briefing prior to departing
into known icing/TFR/hurricane etc.") b) accept flight plans?

Remember that FSS also helps coordinate SAR efforts and helps pilots in
distress. You've also alluded to their usefulness for Flight Watch.

Of course, my experience is almost certainly skewed due to the fact that I
actually fly out of Leesburg (JYO) and have the luxury of walking up to
the
counter for a personal briefing. I would probably share a lot of the
frustrations of many other users if I had to use the phone every time I
wanted to talk to them.

Even with the personal service, though, I still use DUATS more often than
not to get a "briefing" before going to the airport. That usually saves
me
some surprises during my FSS briefing.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
__________

The last FSS I was in was in Illinois. We were x-country to Denver during
T-storm season and decided to go get a personal brief. The guys were really
friendly, but their equipment seemed dated. The briefers did have what
looked like an internet connection with Nexrad on a separate display above
their workspace... yet, his "standard brief" came straight off the mainframe
screen.

My wife (commercial, multi, instrument) asked about avoiding the storms
straddling our route and the guy started to recommend a routing that to my
eyes (glancing at the Nexrad image) looked like it would take us right
through the thick of it! While my wife was getting this guy's .02 on how to
get from here-to-there, another briefer gently grabbed my arm, pulled me
over and gave me his recommendation which was the more Northerly routing
that I'd have picked based on what I'd seen on Nexrad.

So, it's not always a good thing to have some one else, even an expert,
interpret data for you. One more reason I'd love to have a data link in the
plane. I can brief myself on long flights where you may not have your own
internet service.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:IPteb.471963$Oz4.295381@rwcrnsc54...
You haven't been into a modern automated FSS like the one on Boeing Field.
More weather graphics than you can shake a stick at. The only text-based
thing I have seen is the template for accepting flight plans filed by
phone
or radio.

Bob Gardner

The flight service person has more experience in weather than I ever will.
Although I prefer to look at the graphics received over the net, the FSS
personal are a great suppliment. If the weather is at all questionable, my
last question to the FSS person is "If I get in trouble, what is the best
direction to head?". There knowledge is just another assest in my planning
and safety.


"McGregor" wrote in message
link.net...
I get my pre-flight briefings from:
*) weathertap - RadarLab, area outlook, tafs, progs
*) ADDS - flightpath tool for AIRMETS & winds aloft along the route
*) FlightStar - to tell me how long it'll take, print nice-looking flight
plans, plan fuel stops, etc.

Then I call flight service and listen to the guy/girl give me this wildly
generalized briefing that usually doesn't tell me very much.

Last time I was in a flight service station (2000 I think) they were still
using IBM CRTs with textual info, so I don't know how they can give anyone
a
very precise route briefing.

So... is FSS just there to a) cover your ass in case of an incident
("pilot
called FSS and got a full weather briefing prior to departing into known
icing/TFR/hurricane etc.") b) accept flight plans?

wrote in message
...

Plus, if radar coverage is nonexistant
until in the low flight levels, such as at KBIH, the relay works and frees
up the center controller working traffic from having to work the non-radar
arrivals and departures directly.


Frees up the controller? Clearances and instructions relayed through FSS
are an additional burden on the controller. He has to talk to FSS on the
phone while other aircraft are calling on the radio.