VOR approach SMO

On Jul 23, 12:17 pm, "karl gruber" wrote:
I see no problem with the weather 800/3 as you point out. Inside BEVEY drive
down to 680 outside CULVE, and have 3 miles to descend 505 feet. Any jet
will do that all day long.

No, you misread the chart. It is not 3 miles from CULVE, its about 1/2
that. The distances you are looking at are *NOT* the distances to the
threshold, those are to the DME, on the other side of the field.

-Robert

On Jul 23, 1:18 pm, "karl gruber" wrote:
Where are you digging up such erroneous thoughts?

With 800/3 you'll be way outside CULVE when you see the runway.

No, with 800 foot ceiling you will be at 1120 when at CULVE, making it
hard to see the runway through the clouds.

-Robert

In article ,
Roy Smith wrote:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:
The other day I shot the VOR approach into SMO for the first time in
low actual. I've often looked at that approach as one of the most
difficult I've seen published

Why do you think this is difficult? The only thing I see that's tricky
about it is that you need to keep up a steep descent (360 ft/nm from DARTS
to the threshold, and about 500 ft/nm from CULVE to the threshold, by my
calculations), but that's just a matter of energy management.

Indeed. The only time I've done that approach for real (in marginal VMC
through a thin layer of stratus) SoCal vectored me well inside DARTS at
6,000' in a 172, which is SOP, apparently. Energy management's
definitely the key in a situation like that -- there's a reason I've
heard it called the "Santa Monica Slam" -- but dropping like a rock like
that would surely take a bit of faith in hard IMC....

The other point is that you're on an approach with a lot of faster
aircraft behind you, and I'm sure the temptation is to keep going like a
bat out of hell right up until the MDA, at which point you don't have a
lot of time and space to slow down. That hasn't happened to me, but I
can understand why it might. I was asked for best forward speed all the
way from somewhere out near OHIGH to CULVE. But it was VFR below the
stratus, and I knew my way around...

Hamish

In article ,
"karl gruber" wrote:

I see no problem with the weather 800/3 as you point out. Inside BEVEY drive
down to 680 outside CULVE, and have 3 miles to descend 505 feet. Any jet
will do that all day long.

So you'd drop below 1120 *outside* CULVE? Even if you were just cutting
things a little fine, the 2.4 miles from CULVE is from the *far end* of
the runway you're landing on... and if you were descending below 1120
just inside BEVEY in IMC, you might be in more trouble than you'd like.

Hamish

I think all but one of the posters have missed the fact that the MDA is not
1120 but 680. If indeed the vis was 3 miles, then the runway should have
been in sight from the MDA of 680 feet about a mile OUTSIDE of Culve.
(Remember what you can do once you have the runway in sight????) At which
point it's not a particularly big deal to lose 500 feet to land on the
numbers. Maybe even crossing Culve at 3-400 feet agl.
"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"karl gruber" wrote:

I see no problem with the weather 800/3 as you point out. Inside BEVEY
drive
down to 680 outside CULVE, and have 3 miles to descend 505 feet. Any jet
will do that all day long.

So you'd drop below 1120 *outside* CULVE? Even if you were just cutting
things a little fine, the 2.4 miles from CULVE is from the *far end* of
the runway you're landing on... and if you were descending below 1120
just inside BEVEY in IMC, you might be in more trouble than you'd like.

Hamish

No, the VIS is 3. It doesn't matter where the VOR is. You can be at 680 6.7
miles out. When you are 3 miles from the AIRPORT, it will be in sight.

Karl



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 23, 1:18 pm, "karl gruber" wrote:
Where are you digging up such erroneous thoughts?

No, he's right. The VOR (and therefor the DME readings) are on the
*OTHER* side of the runway. So the distance from CULVE to the
threshold is pretty short, and creates a pretty wild let down from
1000 feet.

-Robert

Not with DME, you'll be at 680 far before CULVE.

Karl
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 23, 1:18 pm, "karl gruber" wrote:
Where are you digging up such erroneous thoughts?

With 800/3 you'll be way outside CULVE when you see the runway.

No, with 800 foot ceiling you will be at 1120 when at CULVE, making it
hard to see the runway through the clouds.

-Robert

No.

You can be 6.7 miles out at 680/DME.


Karl
Read and UNDERSTAND the chart



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 23, 12:17 pm, "karl gruber" wrote:
I see no problem with the weather 800/3 as you point out. Inside BEVEY
drive
down to 680 outside CULVE, and have 3 miles to descend 505 feet. Any jet
will do that all day long.

No, you misread the chart. It is not 3 miles from CULVE, its about 1/2
that. The distances you are looking at are *NOT* the distances to the
threshold, those are to the DME, on the other side of the field.

-Robert

Once inside BEVEY you're good for 680. There is no glideslope and it's "Dive
and Drive." That's why the pros make it in with no trouble, they can read
charts.

Karl

Karl
"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"karl gruber" wrote:

I see no problem with the weather 800/3 as you point out. Inside BEVEY
drive
down to 680 outside CULVE, and have 3 miles to descend 505 feet. Any jet
will do that all day long.

So you'd drop below 1120 *outside* CULVE? Even if you were just cutting
things a little fine, the 2.4 miles from CULVE is from the *far end* of
the runway you're landing on... and if you were descending below 1120
just inside BEVEY in IMC, you might be in more trouble than you'd like.

Hamish

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

Karl



"pgbnh" wrote in message
news
I think all but one of the posters have missed the fact that the MDA is not
1120 but 680. If indeed the vis was 3 miles, then the runway should have
been in sight from the MDA of 680 feet about a mile OUTSIDE of Culve.
(Remember what you can do once you have the runway in sight????) At which
point it's not a particularly big deal to lose 500 feet to land on the
numbers. Maybe even crossing Culve at 3-400 feet agl.
"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"karl gruber" wrote:

I see no problem with the weather 800/3 as you point out. Inside BEVEY
drive
down to 680 outside CULVE, and have 3 miles to descend 505 feet. Any jet
will do that all day long.

So you'd drop below 1120 *outside* CULVE? Even if you were just cutting
things a little fine, the 2.4 miles from CULVE is from the *far end* of
the runway you're landing on... and if you were descending below 1120
just inside BEVEY in IMC, you might be in more trouble than you'd like.

Hamish