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"First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 16th 07, 02:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Mike[_7_]
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Default "First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"

Philadelphia Inquirer
October 9, 2007

First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks

By Jay Price, McClatchy Newspapers

BAGHDAD-- The V-22 Osprey has arrived in a combat zone for the first
time.

It was an epic trip for the tilt-rotor plane, one that took more than
25 years of development and cost 30 lives and $20 billion. Even the
last short hop - from an aircraft carrier into Iraq - went awry, U.S.
military officials said yesterday.

A malfunction forced one of the 10 Ospreys that were deployed to land
in Jordan on Thursday. The Marines flew parts to it from Iraq and
repaired it.
After it took off again Saturday, the problem recurred, and it had to
turn back and land in Jordan a second time, said Maj. Jeff Pool, a
U.S. military spokesman in western Iraq. The Osprey finally was
repaired and arrived at Asad air base in western Iraq late Sunday
afternoon.

Maj. Eric Dent, an Osprey spokesman at Marine headquarters in
Washington, declined to identify the problem.

"The nature of the malfunction was a minor issue, but our aircrews are
top-notch when it comes to safety," Dent said in an e-mail. "Rather
than continue, the aircrew opted to land at a predetermined divert
location and further investigate the issue."

Now the Osprey is on the world stage, and the burden of proving it is
safe and effective in combat lies with the North Carolina-based Marine
Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 263, nicknamed the "Thunder Chickens." The
unit's mission will be transporting troops and cargo in western Iraq.

It will perform that mission in ways that no other military
transporters have done in combat. The Osprey - which costs $110
million each, including development costs - takes off and lands like a
helicopter but tilts its engines forward to fly like an airplane. It
is jointly produced by the Boeing Co. in Ridley Township, Delaware
County, and Bell Helicopter Textron of Fort Worth, Texas.

Its arrival in Iraq is aviation history, said Bob Leder, a spokesman
for the Bell-Boeing partnership.

"This is a big thing - the introduction of a new type of aircraft into
combat, totally different from the way things have been done before,"
he said.

Leder said the company believed that the Osprey and the squadron would
do well but that years of criticism and heavy media attention were
putting huge pressure on the unit to perform.

The aircraft's problems have generated a gallery of vocal detractors,
who say that not only is it too expensive and too dangerous but that
it performs poorly and has become little more than an extraordinarily
expensive bus.

The Osprey made the cover of Time magazine last week in a highly
critical article that called it "A Flying Shame."

The problem with the flight into Iraq recalled one of the V-22's first
big journeys, a transatlantic flight last year to an English air show.
One Osprey suffered engine problems and had to make a precautionary
landing in Iceland.

The aircraft has had worse moments, though, including three fatal
crashes:

In 1992, seven crew members died when a tilt-rotor crashed into the
Potomac River.

In April 2000, a V-22 with 19 crew and Marine passengers aboard
crashed in Arizona, killing all.

In December 2000, a mechanical problem compounded by a software glitch
caused a crash in North Carolina that killed the crew of four.

  #2  
Old October 17th 07, 03:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
[email protected]
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Default "First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"

On Oct 16, 6:24 am, Mike wrote:
Philadelphia Inquirer
October 9, 2007

First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks




It will probably prove far easier to shoot down than helos
particularly when it's in the transition phase.

  #3  
Old October 17th 07, 11:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Tiger
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Default "First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"

The Media bashing of the V-22 is getting old. The B-58 had more
accidents than the v-22 ever had. Other programs have had troubled
histories: F4U, F7U, F-104, AV-8,etc...

  #4  
Old October 18th 07, 12:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
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Default "First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"

On Oct 17, 3:53 pm, Tiger wrote:
The Media bashing of the V-22 is getting old. The B-58 had more
accidents than the v-22 ever had. Other programs have had troubled
histories: F4U, F7U, F-104, AV-8,etc...



How many of those has to transition from forward flight to hover in a
combat zone?

  #6  
Old October 18th 07, 12:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Peter Skelton
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Default "First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:53:09 -0400, Tiger
wrote:

The Media bashing of the V-22 is getting old. The B-58 had more
accidents than the v-22 ever had. Other programs have had troubled
histories: F4U, F7U, F-104, AV-8,etc...


Sure, but how many went decades and billions in development for
roles which are only moderately useful or better done by other
means?

The reason the bashing is getting old is the stubborness of the
program, not unfairness by the media.


Peter Skelton
  #7  
Old October 18th 07, 01:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Tiger
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Default "First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"

Peter Skelton wrote:

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:53:09 -0400, Tiger
wrote:



The Media bashing of the V-22 is getting old. The B-58 had more
accidents than the v-22 ever had. Other programs have had troubled
histories: F4U, F7U, F-104, AV-8,etc...



Sure, but how many went decades and billions in development for
roles which are only moderately useful or better done by other
means?

The reason the bashing is getting old is the stubborness of the
program, not unfairness by the media.


Peter Skelton


Granted it's been a pricey ride. However I think the big hurtles are
past. I'd still take my chances with the V-22 over a flying Greyhound
bus with rotors. The tilt rotor is a tech leap that has no real turnback.


  #8  
Old October 18th 07, 01:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Vince
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Default "First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"

Tiger wrote:
The Media bashing of the V-22 is getting old. The B-58 had more
accidents than the v-22 ever had. Other programs have had troubled
histories: F4U, F7U, F-104, AV-8,etc...


The B 58 What a great example

everything sacrificed to high speed
everything had to be gold plated
andby the tiem it was ready the mission was gone


Nevertheless, it had a much smaller weapons load and more limited range
than the B-52 Stratofortress. It had been extremely expensive to acquire
(in 1959 it was reported that each of the production B-58As was worth
more than its weight in gold). It was a complex aircraft that required
considerable maintenance, much of which required specialized equipment,
which made it three times as expensive to operate as the B-52. Also
against it was an unfavorably high accident rate: 26 aircraft were lost
in accidents, 22.4% of total production. An engine loss at supersonic
cruise was very difficult to safely recover from due to differential
thrust. SAC had been dubious about the type from the beginning, although
its crews eventually became enthusiastic about the aircraft (its
performance and design were appreciated, although it was never easy to fly).

By the time the early problems had largely been resolved and SAC
interest in the bomber had solidified, Secretary of Defense Robert
McNamara decided that the B-58 was not going to be a viable weapon
system. It was during its introduction that the surface-to-air missile
became a viable and dangerous weapon system, one the Soviet Union
extensively deployed. The "solution" to this problem was to fly at low
altitudes, minimizing the radar line-of-sight and thus detection time.

While the Hustler was able to fly these sorts of missions, it could not
do so at supersonic speeds, thereby giving up the high performance the
design paid so dearly for. Its moderate range suffered further due to
the thicker low-altitude air. Its early retirement, slated for 1970, was
ordered in 1965, and despite efforts of the Air Force to earn a
reprieve, proceeded on schedule.


sounds like the V-22

Vince

  #9  
Old October 18th 07, 02:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Vince
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Default "First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"

Tiger wrote:
Peter Skelton wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:53:09 -0400, Tiger
wrote:


The Media bashing of the V-22 is getting old. The B-58 had more
accidents than the v-22 ever had. Other programs have had troubled
histories: F4U, F7U, F-104, AV-8,etc...


Sure, but how many went decades and billions in development for
roles which are only moderately useful or better done by other
means?

The reason the bashing is getting old is the stubborness of the
program, not unfairness by the media.


Peter Skelton

Granted it's been a pricey ride. However I think the big hurtles are
past. I'd still take my chances with the V-22 over a flying Greyhound
bus with rotors. The tilt rotor is a tech leap that has no real turnback.


All transports are greyhound busses

That is the mission

The V-22 is right up there with the amphicar , the battleship/carrier
and other hybrids
It has to convert to a really crappy helicopter to take off or land

Vince



  #10  
Old October 18th 07, 02:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Rob Arndt[_2_]
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Default "First Ospreys Land In Iraq; One Arrives After 2 Setbacks"

On Oct 17, 4:14?pm, wrote:
On Oct 17, 3:53 pm, Tiger wrote:

The Media bashing of the V-22 is getting old. The B-58 had more
accidents than the v-22 ever had. Other programs have had troubled
histories: F4U, F7U, F-104, AV-8,etc...


How many of those has to transition from forward flight to hover in a
combat zone?


How many of those will lose 24-26 men instead of 1-10 if shot down?
None in US aviation inventory history. And, don't say heavy transports
have either b/c the V-22 is not one of them and is completely
vunerable in transitional flight as compared to evasive maneuvering,
ditching, and a controlled crashed landing in the big transports.

In the Osprey, you are a sitting duck in transition- take-off or
landing.

Rob

 




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