Switching to ground....

Newps wrote:

A taxi instruction is never a clearance to enter a runway,

It routinely is.

I've learnt that it is in the USA. In my litle quarrel with Steven I
just said it was not so where I live. There actually is life outside the
USA.

Stefan

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

What have you against sharing airspace with a safety-minded pilot?

Safety means knowing ad adhering to local rules. When some day I'll fly
in the USA, I'll happily learn ad adhere to the US rules, whether they
please me or not. I expect the same vice versa.

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

Safety means knowing ad adhering to local rules.


Safety also means having safe and logical rules. The rules in the US are
logical and safe. The rules in Germany are illogical and unsafe.

wrote:
... in the USA, you have permission to cross all runways on the
way to your assigned runway, EXCEPT the active runway.

Then I've committed an awful lot of runway incursions without ever being
told about it.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

wrote in message
...

Almost... in the USA, you have permission to cross all runways on the
way to your assigned runway, EXCEPT the active runway.


That's not quite right either. In the US, you have permission to cross all
runways, on the way to your assigned runway, except the ASSIGNED runway.

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

Then I've committed an awful lot of runway incursions without
ever being told about it.


Well, you have if you crossed the assigned runway. If you merely crossed
other active runways that were not assigned to you then you're okay.


§ 91.129 Operations in Class D airspace.

(i) Takeoff, landing, taxi clearance. No person may, at any airport with an
operating control tower, operate an aircraft on a runway or taxiway, or take
off or land an aircraft, unless an appropriate clearance is received from
ATC. A clearance to "taxi to" the takeoff runway assigned to the aircraft is
not a clearance to cross that assigned takeoff runway, or to taxi on that
runway at any point, but is a clearance to cross other runways that
intersect the taxi route to that assigned takeoff runway. A clearance to
"taxi to" any point other than an assigned takeoff runway is clearance to
cross all runways that intersect the taxi route to that point.

I am not clear why 'cross any intersecting runways' is a particuarly safe
thing to do. This may make sense at a familiar airport where you know the
taxiways and intersecting runway. At unfamiliar airports, I get extremely
nervous when crossing an intersecting hold short line. There could be
more than one way to get to the assigned runway, and you may be following
a different route than the one the controller had in mind and
inadvertantly cross an active runway. At unfamiliar airports I stop and
verify clearance to cross. I've had controllers get annoyed at me for
that, but better be safe than sorry. Given the increased rate of runway
incursions, this rule never made any sense to me.




"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net:


"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

Then I've committed an awful lot of runway incursions without
ever being told about it.


Well, you have if you crossed the assigned runway. If you merely
crossed other active runways that were not assigned to you then you're
okay.


§ 91.129 Operations in Class D airspace.

(i) Takeoff, landing, taxi clearance. No person may, at any airport
with an operating control tower, operate an aircraft on a runway or
taxiway, or take off or land an aircraft, unless an appropriate
clearance is received from ATC. A clearance to "taxi to" the takeoff
runway assigned to the aircraft is not a clearance to cross that
assigned takeoff runway, or to taxi on that runway at any point, but
is a clearance to cross other runways that intersect the taxi route to
that assigned takeoff runway. A clearance to "taxi to" any point other
than an assigned takeoff runway is clearance to cross all runways that
intersect the taxi route to that point.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

The rules in the US are
logical and safe. The rules in Germany are illogical and unsafe.

So be it, if it helps to make you feel better. Just be sure you never
leave the logical and safe USA.

Stefan

wrote:
Newps wrote:




A taxi instruction is never a clearance to enter a runway, I don't see
what's so difficult about that.


It routinely is. You can cross all runways on the way to your assigned
runway. Those runways may or may not be in use.


Almost... in the USA, you have permission to cross all runways on the
way to your assigned runway, EXCEPT the active runway.

Precisely what I just said.

but is a clearance to cross other runways that
intersect the taxi route to that assigned takeoff runway.


Ok, so you are cleared to runway 21. One taxi route takes you across runway
8-26, another equally direct one does not. You are not given a taxi route.

I take it (in the US) you may choose your route and cross 8-26.

Anybody take it differently?

Jose

--
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