Interesting consequence of improperly programming GPS route

This is from 2003 so it may be old for some of you....

When ferrying from the West Coast to New Zealand, what happens when you
program some key waypoints as Longitude WEST, instead of Longitude EAST in
the vicinity of the dateline.

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/publications..._sec2.asp#over

Kelowna Flightcraft is based on my home field - CYLW - Kelowna BC

Tony
C-GICE

In article ,
"Icebound" wrote:

This is from 2003 so it may be old for some of you....

When ferrying from the West Coast to New Zealand, what happens when you
program some key waypoints as Longitude WEST, instead of Longitude EAST in
the vicinity of the dateline.

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/publications...8/air_issue28_
sec2.asp#over




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

So much for requiring crews to know their equipment - if they had not
placed a certain data card in, they would not have had to manually enter
way points... which was one of the first links in the error chain..

Dave

Icebound wrote:
This is from 2003 so it may be old for some of you....

When ferrying from the West Coast to New Zealand, what happens when you
program some key waypoints as Longitude WEST, instead of Longitude EAST in
the vicinity of the dateline.

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/publications..._sec2.asp#over

You HAVE to have a backup to GPS and USE it. Some sort of non-GPS
system.

"Doug" wrote

You HAVE to have a backup to GPS and USE it. Some sort of non-GPS
system.

Doug...recently you are posting a lot about things that you
have no knowledge of.
In this case, you obviously have no knowledge of long-range
oceanic flying.
What would you suggest as a backup in the middle of the
Pacific Ocean?
It was not a GPS problem, it was a programing error that the
pilot did not detect.

Bob Moore
ATP CFI
PanAm (retired)

What would you suggest as a backup in the middle of the
Pacific Ocean?

Paper charts, a compass, and dead reckoning.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

("Doug" wrote)
You HAVE to have a backup to GPS and USE it. Some sort of non-GPS
system.


Like the signal from an AM radio station?

One of the more interesting links/stories posted in a while.
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/publications/reflexions/air/2005/issue_28/air_issue28_sec2.asp#over

(From the report)
The controller was unable to see or identify the aircraft on radar, and
requested that C-GKFJ tune in the low-frequency radio broadcast station 2YA,
frequency 567 kHz, and report the bearing. The crew reported that automatic
direction finding homing was very poor because of thunderstorm activity, but
the most reliable bearing appeared to be astern.


Pilot: We're 80 miles out.
Control: Um, we don't see you on our radar.
Pilot: Yup, we're right here.
Control: No you're not. Tune in to our local Top 40 radio station for a
fix.
Pilot: Hmm. Must be having radio problems, can't seem to pick it up.

Me: That's because you're flying off course to friggn' Antarctica and
don't know it!!!

Glad it all worked out. Whew.


Montblack

"Jose" wrote in message news:0eCse.1053

What would you suggest as a backup in the middle of the
Pacific Ocean?

Paper charts, a compass, and dead reckoning.

In a manner of speaking, you're sort of right. I've never flew oceanic with
GPS, only inertial, and we always had to maintain a plot. The best backup
is a disciplined procedure, common sense, a plotting chart, and paying
attention.

Bob probably used similar procedures. During pre-flight setup the PNF (I
think) would read the waypoints from the flight plan, and the PF would enter
them in the keypad. For crosscheck, the PNF would read the waypoints from
the display, with the FE monitoring, and the PF would verify back to the
same printed flightplan.

The inflight loading of downline waypoints was a weaker link, but similar
crosscheck procedures applied.

We would have to verify each waypoint passage, plus do a position check 10
minutes past each waypoint, crosschecking each of the three inertial units.
The weak link with inertials, of course, is that the one driving the
airplane will *always* tell you its right on the money.

The leg that crossed the equator or the 180 meridian was always one of the
downline points, loaded enroute, and a wrong entry would result in a wrong
way turn. The guys in this incident were unfortunate in that their route of
flight was close enough to true south that a reversal error did not result
in too outrageous a turn. When I was flying the So Pacific, it was usually
from Pago or Nadi southwestward toward Sydney or Melbourne, so a missed
longitude entry at the 180 would result in such an obvious wrong turn it
would be immediately noticable.

The leg that crossed the equator or the 180 meridian was always one of the
downline points, loaded enroute, and a wrong entry would result in a wrong
way turn.

By using paper charts, a compass, and dead reckoning as backup, I mean
to actually use a plotter, draw a line on the chart, and measure the
course line. Your paper chart indicates (for example) a desired course
of 170, and your GPS says 190. Something's wrong.

It's like working a calculator without doing a rough calculation in your
head at the same time. Press one wrong button and the calculator will
tell you that you have 143,226.21079 gallons left in your 152. I'm
amazed at how many people would just put that down as the answer these
days, because the calculator said so.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message news:IeDse.6352

By using paper charts, a compass, and dead reckoning as backup, I mean to
actually use a plotter, draw a line on the chart, and measure the course
line. Your paper chart indicates (for example) a desired course of 170,
and your GPS says 190. Something's wrong.

Well, I guess I didn't clarify. Oceanic, that's what you do with a plotting
chart. Its a line on paper, but its just a small scale chart so when you
line in the trip pre-flight, you can get the entire trip on one sheet
smaller than an enroute chart. All the DR data that might be needed for
reference...time, distance, course for each leg... is contained on the
computer generated flight plan -- its part of the cross check.
For a local or regional GA flight, your absolutely right -- the GPS data
ought to be periodically back-checked against a chart.