secret advice

"Dave S" wrote in message
nk.net...
#1) Dont go skydiving without a parachute (that should be hitting close
to home if you fly where I think you do). Dont exit your own 150/2 in
flight without a qualified pilot at the controls either.

#2) Get a copy of the Cessna 150 Aerobatic Training Manual. Said book
may be out of print, but if you can find it it would be a good reference
for yanking and banking type stuff. I have my father's old copy that is
probably older than I am.

#3) Before continuing with said yanking and banking aspirations, head to
to LaPorte and get some aerobatic instruction or spin training. Even if
you don't ever intend to do such things in your own plane, its a good
exposure to just what kind of yanking and banking stuff is out there, as
well as how to recover when you overyank and over bank

Unfortunately, I can't go into any REALLY secret advice without the
secret handshake.

Dave

Disclaimer to the rest of the world: the above advice is predicated on
living in or near the Houston, Texas and being familiar with places of
business alluded to in items #1 and #3

houstondan wrote:
ok...as to flying c-150/172 type aircraft, what can you do, really,
that's fun and won't hurt the airframe? at 80mph, can you really hurt
the machine with full control deflection? i guess that's what i'm
asking ... how much can you "yank and bank" these things before bad
things happen? i can get a real good feel for the slow flight
characteristics by trying it at altitude. a can't think of any way to
test airframe without testing to destruction....mine. exactly how do
you do those rolls???

i know i'm begging to hear a lot of "never do that", well-meaning
warnings but there has to be some tribal wisdom on "how much can you
do?"


dan

Your question has already been answered, and it sounds like you are
determined to go ahead with a bad decision. good luck.
Clyde

hey dave, re#1; yes, about a year ago one of the guys went up with a
paying client and came back down all by himself. guy just decided to
walk home, i guess.

2. got that copied-down and on the computer. ( 'round here, "on the
computer" means it's written on a yellow-stickey and affixed to the
edge of the screen!). if i can't find one, perhaps we could arrange a
"borrow" with appropriate rental and security???

3. what's at laporte? there's a citabria at weiser/windsock and they
do tailwheel/aerobatic ttraining in that. been planning to get with
them. you really hit the point there. i do think there's a big safety
issue around being able to handle different situations.

as i think about it now, the only time i've been in a 172 with some
real yankin&bankin was on the checkride when the examiner did the
"unusual attitude recovery by instrument" drill where you've got your
eyes closed, head down foggles on and he's doin everything he can to
get you discombobulated. i suspect he wanted to instill some humility
and respect. passed that and went straight to pure terror. i did
manage to get the thing back to straight and level....eventually.

damn....i knew there was gunna be a secret handshake. nobody tells me
nuttin.
thx

dan

houstondan wrote:



3. what's at laporte?

Harvey & Rihn Aviation is on the east side of the field. They have been
doing spin training and aerobatic stuff since before "windsock" in its
latest incarnation came to be. Havent taken training at either so I cant
comment on quality of either.


Dave

3. what's at laporte? there's a citabria at weiser/windsock and they
do tailwheel/aerobatic ttraining in that.

What's at LaPorte is Harvey and Rihn. There is indeed a Citabri at
Windsock.

Would strongly recommend that you go to Houston Southwest (Texas
Taildraggers) rather than either of these. Joy is a retired aerobatic
competitor of some stature, and the airplanes are very well maintained.
You can learn more about Harvey&Rihn maintenance practices by checking
out the NTSB database.

Michael

michael...thanks for the follow-up. yes, now that you mention it, i do
remember someone last spring mentioning that after i got my ppl, i
needed to get with "a woman" somewhere southish about tailwheel etc.

very good, i will look into that further. if i can impose (on someone)
some more; how do i find anything about "harvey & rihn" on the ntsb
site. also, isn't there a site where i can plug in a tail # and get
details on the plane, owner history etc???

dan

houstondan wrote:
michael...thanks for the follow-up. yes, now that you mention it, i
do
remember someone last spring mentioning that after i got my ppl, i
needed to get with "a woman" somewhere southish about tailwheel etc.

That would be the one. Joy is very highly regarded. I've never flown
with her (or at her flight school), but I have seen the results when
people do. I've seen her take marginal pilots and make excellent
pilots in just a few hours.

very good, i will look into that further. if i can impose (on
someone)
some more; how do i find anything about "harvey & rihn" on the ntsb
site.

Go to the search engine:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

You can get a good start just by entering rihn (or harvey % rihn) into
the text box that says:
Enter your word string below
This won't get you everything, but it will be a start.

You can learn more about how to do searches simply by clicking on the
Examples link to the right of that text box.

You can learn more by searching for accidents at LaPorte, but you have
to be more careful there because H&R isn't the only FBO there.

In general, you can learn a lot about a flight school by looking
through the NTSB reports. While the NTSB will not report the name of
the pilot, it will report the name of the owner and operator if this is
not the pilot. However, even when maintenance is clearly the cause of
the accident, the NTSB will not report what maintenance facility did
the work unless it was under the control of the owner-operator (just a
bit of bias there, don't you think?) which makes it difficult to
evaluate the maintenance practices of a flight school/FBO unless they
are so bad that their own aircraft are crashing due to poor
maintenance.

also, isn't there a site where i can plug in a tail # and get
details on the plane, owner history etc???

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm

And for pilots, the site is:
http://162.58.35.241/aadatabase/login.asp

Michael

At 80mph you are pretty safe to yank and jerk the controls all
day long. The problem is that as you are doing this you can end
up in a spin or suddendly at a much higher airspeed than you
started out at. Before I tried any fancy aerobatics I'd first
want to be in a plane certified for it and have an experienced
aerobatics pilot with me.

houstondan wrote:

ok...as to flying c-150/172 type aircraft, what can you do, really,
that's fun and won't hurt the airframe? at 80mph, can you really hurt
the machine with full control deflection? i guess that's what i'm
asking ... how much can you "yank and bank" these things before bad
things happen? i can get a real good feel for the slow flight
characteristics by trying it at altitude. a can't think of any way to
test airframe without testing to destruction....mine. exactly how do
you do those rolls???

i know i'm begging to hear a lot of "never do that", well-meaning
warnings but there has to be some tribal wisdom on "how much can you
do?"


dan

In a previous article, "houstondan" said:
i know i'm begging to hear a lot of "never do that", well-meaning
warnings but there has to be some tribal wisdom on "how much can you
do?"

Don't teach yourself aerobatics. People who try end up as smoking holes.
Get somebody who knows aerobatics to show you stuff. It doesn't have to
be a CFI, just somebody who knows what they're doing and can recover after
you put it into an inverted flat spin or whatever.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You mean [Exchange] was deliberately written? I thought someone had
transcribed the writing on a football-stadium restroom wall, found
that it compiled, so shipped it.

"houstondan" wrote in message
oups.com...
ok...as to flying c-150/172 type aircraft, what can you do, really,
that's fun and won't hurt the airframe? at 80mph, can you really hurt
the machine with full control deflection? i guess that's what i'm
asking ... how much can you "yank and bank" these things before bad
things happen? i can get a real good feel for the slow flight
characteristics by trying it at altitude. a can't think of any way to
test airframe without testing to destruction....mine. exactly how do
you do those rolls???

i know i'm begging to hear a lot of "never do that", well-meaning
warnings but there has to be some tribal wisdom on "how much can you
do?"

According to my logbook, in N8376M, a C-150 Aerobat, I've done loops,
Immelmans, snap-rolls, slow rolls, spins, hammerheads, and Cuban-S. In a
glider, I've done loops and slow rolls.
Every solo manuever was preceded by at least two and most of the
time three exercises with an instructor.
By the way, the spin is the only manuever initiated at less than
full-throttle and 120K. You can do a lot of yanking and banking (most often
resulting in a spin) at lower speeds, but the rest require significant
energy.
I did enough aerobatics to determine that I wasn't ready to invest
the $$$$$$ in the kind of airplane required to pursue the sport. It was fun,
there was some excitement, but my sweetie pie.... well, let's just say she
took a dim view.
Dig into the FARs and find the sections that relate to more than
60-degree bank and 15(?)-degree pitch, before you do anything.

We used to teach spins in the 150/152. If you haven't done 'em you should...

"houstondan" wrote in message oups.com...
ok...as to flying c-150/172 type aircraft, what can you do, really,
that's fun and won't hurt the airframe? at 80mph, can you really hurt
the machine with full control deflection? i guess that's what i'm
asking ... how much can you "yank and bank" these things before bad
things happen? i can get a real good feel for the slow flight
characteristics by trying it at altitude. a can't think of any way to
test airframe without testing to destruction....mine. exactly how do
you do those rolls???

i know i'm begging to hear a lot of "never do that", well-meaning
warnings but there has to be some tribal wisdom on "how much can you
do?"


dan