The first $100 tow...

If you have a Pawnee or a Tug with enough grunt why not dual tow?
Guys at my club here in NZ do it on a regular basis on days when a long tow
is needed to get away. Split the cost.
Paul


"Stewart Kissel" wrote in
message ...
At 21:42 31 August 2005, Hl Falbaum wrote:
Actually, our numbers are 'block to block' averaged
over time. We usually
leave the mixture full rich, and have a Tost internal
tow rope winch. Land
opposite take off direction, turn around, hook up and
go!


Guenther Jacobs at Parowan has refined his technique
one step past this...the glider is staged on the active
with the second rope hooked to it, pilot strapped in
and ready. The towplane lands facing the glider, taxis
up and drops it rope on the side of the runway, spins
around and is hooked up. Tightens the rope and goes.
Hard to waste time on the ground this way.

At my local FBO (Mt. Valley Airport ,California) it cost $68 for a
4,000 ft. to the top of
the mountain. With the price of AV Gas going up I wonder when/who
will be the first
FBO with a $100 4,000 ft. tow?

Any comments?

Oscar.

For cross country flying...I will pay whatever the
going rate becomes. I figure a day's soaring in Colorado
is worth it. For training flights, I think this is
going to hurt. I don't see to many tow operations
getting rich, and they will get squeezed. I suppose
those with deep pockets can go to self-launching, but
not sure if that is really saving money in the long
run. The long drives many of us do to get to our soaring
spots are going to take a bigger bite as well.

On the flip side....when I hear a pilot with a $85k
glider being towed by a $50k SUV...bitching about tow
rates...I take it with a grain of salt

Support Bill Daniels

GET THE WINCHES OUT!

Ok it may not get you to the top of the mountain but
with a long runway 3000 feet is easily achieveable
at a fraction of the cost!


Just a thought..........

At 15:30 31 August 2005, Oscar S Alonso wrote:

At my local FBO (Mt. Valley Airport ,California) it
cost $68 for a
4,000 ft. to the top of
the mountain. With the price of AV Gas going up I
wonder when/who
will be the first
FBO with a $100 4,000 ft. tow?

Any comments?

Oscar.

Oscar S Alonso wrote:

At my local FBO (Mt. Valley Airport ,California) it cost $68 for a 4,000
ft. to the top of
the mountain. With the price of AV Gas going up I wonder when/who will
be the first
FBO with a $100 4,000 ft. tow?

Any comments?

We've almost had that in Hollister for the last year. A 4,000 foot tow
(at $2.10/hundred) plus the $5 hookup cost clocks in at $89.

Jeremy

At our site (867ft MSL) in hot, humid Georgia we use about 1.5 gal for the
average 3000 ft tow. Our 265 hp Pawnee is STC'd for auto gas, which we have
used for about the past 5 years or so without difficulty. I just bought some
Avgas for a Mooney at 3.85/gal.
So worst case 4.00/gal, 2 gal for 4000 ft = $8.00
As always, fuel is the least expensive part of operating an airplane (within
certain limits of use), and the fixed costs are the most expensive.

--
Hartley Falbaum
Mid Georgia Soaring Assn, USA


"Jeremy Zawodny" wrote in message
...
Oscar S Alonso wrote:

At my local FBO (Mt. Valley Airport ,California) it cost $68 for a 4,000
ft. to the top of
the mountain. With the price of AV Gas going up I wonder when/who will
be the first
FBO with a $100 4,000 ft. tow?

Any comments?

We've almost had that in Hollister for the last year. A 4,000 foot tow
(at $2.10/hundred) plus the $5 hookup cost clocks in at $89.

Jeremy

4000' tow? We strongly discourage tows above 2000' during the busy part of
the day.
Our 2000' tows haven't yet broken the $20 mark, but I suspect they will when
we get our next 3000 gallons.....

"Oscar S Alonso" wrote in message
news:2005083108281116807%oalonso@NOSPAMmaccom...

At my local FBO (Mt. Valley Airport ,California) it cost $68 for a
4,000 ft. to the top of
the mountain. With the price of AV Gas going up I wonder when/who
will be the first
FBO with a $100 4,000 ft. tow?

Any comments?

Oscar.

"HL Falbaum" wrote in message
...
At our site (867ft MSL) in hot, humid Georgia we use about 1.5 gal for
the
average 3000 ft tow. Our 265 hp Pawnee is STC'd for auto gas, which we
have
used for about the past 5 years or so without difficulty. I just bought
some
Avgas for a Mooney at 3.85/gal.
So worst case 4.00/gal, 2 gal for 4000 ft = $8.00
As always, fuel is the least expensive part of operating an airplane
(within
certain limits of use), and the fixed costs are the most expensive.

--
Hartley Falbaum
Mid Georgia Soaring Assn, USA

I'd bet that while 1.5 Gal is what the tow itself consumes, the average
including warm up taxi and descent will be closer to twice that. We
frequently tow for 20 minutes or so to 10 - 12K feet to reach lift over the
Rockies so fuel costs are going to hit us harder.

Mogas is a good solution if your engine/tug combination has a STC and if you
can find it without ethanol. That's getting harder all the time.

But, you are basically right that the fuel quantity consumed per tow is not
all that large. However, the price of crude will impact every item in the
cost of operating an airplane. Over a period of decades, an aero tow has
cost about the same as a barrel of oil. That would suggest $70US is likely
for now with the dreaded $100 tow right round the corner.

Winches are part of the answer. Any winch can do what a tug does for a lot
of training flights like pattern tows for landing practice. A better winch
can get a glider high enough to find thermal lift while consuming only about
a quart of fuel. However, a winch cannot get a glider high into the
mountains where the good lift is - you would have to soar your way there.

BTW, Denise Layton, Editor of Soaring Magazine, needs some good winch photos
to use with a winch article I wrote. If you have any that could be used for
publication, send them to her.

Bill Daniels

For Example John Smith wrote:
4000' tow? We strongly discourage tows above 2000' during the busy part of
the day.
Our 2000' tows haven't yet broken the $20 mark, but I suspect they will when
we get our next 3000 gallons.....

In most of the western US, the airports are in the valleys and the good
early lift is in the mountains. When the valley is 8000 feet MSL and
the low hills are 11,000 feet MSL, a 4000 foot tow is fairly common.

Shawn

Actually, our numbers are "block to block" averaged over time. We usually
leave the mixture full rich, and have a Tost internal tow rope winch. Land
opposite take off direction, turn around, hook up and go!

Might be more for the instance of pulling a tow or two then waiting (or
shutting down) while someone else gets ready.
We are often able to get off tow at 2000, and some of us get off at 1500.

--
Hartley Falbaum

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...

"HL Falbaum" wrote in message
...
At our site (867ft MSL) in hot, humid Georgia we use about 1.5 gal for
the
average 3000 ft tow. Our 265 hp Pawnee is STC'd for auto gas, which we
have
used for about the past 5 years or so without difficulty. I just bought
some
Avgas for a Mooney at 3.85/gal.
So worst case 4.00/gal, 2 gal for 4000 ft = $8.00
As always, fuel is the least expensive part of operating an airplane
(within
certain limits of use), and the fixed costs are the most expensive.

--
Hartley Falbaum
Mid Georgia Soaring Assn, USA

I'd bet that while 1.5 Gal is what the tow itself consumes, the average
including warm up taxi and descent will be closer to twice that. We
frequently tow for 20 minutes or so to 10 - 12K feet to reach lift over
the
Rockies so fuel costs are going to hit us harder.

Mogas is a good solution if your engine/tug combination has a STC and if
you
can find it without ethanol. That's getting harder all the time.

But, you are basically right that the fuel quantity consumed per tow is
not
all that large. However, the price of crude will impact every item in the
cost of operating an airplane. Over a period of decades, an aero tow has
cost about the same as a barrel of oil. That would suggest $70US is
likely
for now with the dreaded $100 tow right round the corner.

Winches are part of the answer. Any winch can do what a tug does for a
lot
of training flights like pattern tows for landing practice. A better
winch
can get a glider high enough to find thermal lift while consuming only
about
a quart of fuel. However, a winch cannot get a glider high into the
mountains where the good lift is - you would have to soar your way there.

BTW, Denise Layton, Editor of Soaring Magazine, needs some good winch
photos
to use with a winch article I wrote. If you have any that could be used
for
publication, send them to her.

Bill Daniels