IFR in uncontroller airspace

"Blueskies" wrote in message
t...

Isn't a clearance one of the rules?


Only in controlled airspace.


§ 91.173 ATC clearance and flight plan required.
No person may operate an aircraft in controlled airspace under IFR unless
that person has-

(a) Filed an IFR flight plan; and

(b) Received an appropriate ATC clearance.

"Blueskies" writes:

: All the IFR RULES still apply. The only thing you don't have
: is a clearance.

Isn't a clearance one of the rules?

Of course not, in uncontrolled airspace. But many other rules apply:
cruise altitudes for direction of flight, minimum altitudes, etc.

- FChE

"Frank Ch. Eigler" wrote in message ...
:
: "Blueskies" writes:
:
: : All the IFR RULES still apply. The only thing you don't have
: : is a clearance.
:
: Isn't a clearance one of the rules?
:
: Of course not, in uncontrolled airspace. But many other rules apply:
: cruise altitudes for direction of flight, minimum altitudes, etc.
:
: - FChE


I guess I really don't get this. Folks fly below VFR minimums in class G under IFR? Under what 'rules?'

"Blueskies" wrote in message
t...

I guess I really don't get this. Folks fly below VFR minimums in class G
under
IFR? Under what 'rules?'


Under the Instrument Flight Rules. See Part 91 Subpart B, 91.167 through
91.193.

"Blueskies" writes:

I guess I really don't get this. Folks fly below VFR minimums in
class G under IFR?

Yes, that's what we've been telling you.

Under what 'rules?'

There are numerous rules. Read the AIM/FARs, and ignore only those
clauses that are conditioned on "in controlled airspace". The rest
probably apply.

- FChE

Blueskies wrote:
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message ...
: Blueskies wrote:
:
: :
: The title to this thread should be "IF" in uncontrolled airspace, the "R" makes it an oxymoron...
:
:
:
: All the IFR RULES still apply. The only thing you don't have
: is a clearance.


Isn't a clearance one of the rules?


Having a clearance in CONTROLLED AIRSPACE is one of the rules.
All the other ones: pilot qualifications, aircraft equipment,
minimum altitudes, alternates, fuel reserves, etc... still apply.

Uncontrolled airspace only eliminates the need for a clearance,
not the bulk of the IFR rules.

Blueskies wrote:
\
: Of course not, in uncontrolled airspace. But many other rules apply:
: cruise altitudes for direction of flight, minimum altitudes, etc.
:
: - FChE


I guess I really don't get this. Folks fly below VFR minimums in class G under IFR? Under what 'rules?'


Under IFR rules. You can't fly in conditions below the VFR weather
minimums (legally) except IFR.

This means you must be:

1. Instrument rated.
2. Have a plane with the necessary equipment and
inspections for IFR flight.
3. Maintain the minimum altitudes
4. Pilot must be IFR current.
5. If you can arrive VFR at the destination, you must have an
instrument approach.

Except for takeoffs and landings from airports that don't have
surface areas, practical IFR in uncontrolled airspace is thwarted
by #3 and #5 above in most cases. You can't do enroute below
1000'/2000' (normal/mountainous) and most approaches will start
in controlled airspace even if they don't terminate there.

There's also a (not supported by regulation) legal interpretation
where a guy was strung up where the FAA interpretted it as
reckless and dangerous because he did not have an IFR clearance
at the time he took off to continue his flight into controlled
airspace.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message m...
: Under IFR rules. You can't fly in conditions below the VFR weather
: minimums (legally) except IFR.
:
: This means you must be:
:
: 1. Instrument rated.
: 2. Have a plane with the necessary equipment and
: inspections for IFR flight.
: 3. Maintain the minimum altitudes
: 4. Pilot must be IFR current.
: 5. If you can arrive VFR at the destination, you must have an
: instrument approach.
:
: Except for takeoffs and landings from airports that don't have
: surface areas, practical IFR in uncontrolled airspace is thwarted
: by #3 and #5 above in most cases. You can't do enroute below
: 1000'/2000' (normal/mountainous) and most approaches will start
: in controlled airspace even if they don't terminate there.
:
: There's also a (not supported by regulation) legal interpretation
: where a guy was strung up where the FAA interpretted it as
: reckless and dangerous because he did not have an IFR clearance
: at the time he took off to continue his flight into controlled
: airspace.


Well I'll be, I never understood that. So basically you are saying 1000' AGL instrument flight in non-mountainous areas
is legal as long as you stay in class G, also assuming you and the plane are current, and that the landing airport
exceeds VFR minimums when you get there. I never thought anyone would operate in class G at less than VFR minimums...

"Blueskies" wrote in message
t...

Well I'll be, I never understood that. So basically you are saying 1000'
AGL
instrument flight in non-mountainous areas is legal as long as you stay in
class
G, also assuming you and the plane are current, and that the landing
airport
exceeds VFR minimums when you get there.


You've also got to cruise at a cardinal altitude appropriate for your
direction of flight.

On Apr 15, 5:25 pm, "Blueskies" wrote:
"Ron Natalie" wrote in ting.com...

: Under IFR rules. You can't fly in conditions below the VFR weather
: minimums (legally) except IFR.
:
: This means you must be:
:
: 1. Instrument rated.
: 2. Have a plane with the necessary equipment and
: inspections for IFR flight.
: 3. Maintain the minimum altitudes
: 4. Pilot must be IFR current.
: 5. If you can arrive VFR at the destination, you must have an
: instrument approach.
:
: Except for takeoffs and landings from airports that don't have
: surface areas, practical IFR in uncontrolled airspace is thwarted
: by #3 and #5 above in most cases. You can't do enroute below
: 1000'/2000' (normal/mountainous) and most approaches will start
: in controlled airspace even if they don't terminate there.
:
: There's also a (not supported by regulation) legal interpretation
: where a guy was strung up where the FAA interpretted it as
: reckless and dangerous because he did not have an IFR clearance
: at the time he took off to continue his flight into controlled
: airspace.

Well I'll be, I never understood that. So basically you are saying 1000' AGL instrument flight in non-mountainous areas
is legal as long as you stay in class G, also assuming you and the plane are current, and that the landing airport
exceeds VFR minimums when you get there. I never thought anyone would operate in class G at less than VFR minimums...

So you've never taken off IFR from an airport that didn't have class D
(or E) to the surface???

-Robert