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#131
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On 2/25/04 2:21 PM, in article , "Michael
Zaharis" wrote: Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal wrote: I've got time in lots of jets with autothrottles, so spare me the preaching to the choir. I bring up the autothrottle issue on the Airbus because of their famous mishap with a jet that turned out to be the "world's most expensive chainsaw" a few years back. That same throttle automation was responsible for a Russian Airbus doing a wingover about 10 years ago too. --Woody The autothrottle was not the issue on the Airbus "tree harvesting" accident at Mulhouse. High-bypass engines take a finite amount of time to spool up, autothrottle or not. If you get too low, too slow, then decide to goose the throttle too late, you won't get the thrust you need in time, regardless of the throttle mapping. http://aviation-safety.net/database/1988/880626-0.htm Just read it. Sorry, folks, I was misinformed. --Woody |
#132
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote...
The days of turning off the autopilot and flying the airplane yourself are long gone. For the F-22, yep. For the F/A-18, mostly. For the F-14, nope! For other airplanes in service, not even close! |
#133
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"Michael Zaharis" wrote...
The autothrottle was not the issue on the Airbus "tree harvesting" accident at Mulhouse. High-bypass engines take a finite amount of time to spool up, autothrottle or not. If you get too low, too slow, then decide to goose the throttle too late, you won't get the thrust you need in time, regardless of the throttle mapping. It's not only a function of high-bypass engines! The J-65 engines in the older model A-4s had about a 13-second spool-up time, and the centrifugal-flow engines in the old F-9s were even worse! Some people were spoiled by the J-85, J-79 and other later-generation turbojets that had great spool-up times. The J-52 was not as good, but a far cry better than the J-65! The high-bypass turbofan just took ONE engine performance factor back to the "stone age" of jet propulsion... |
#134
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote...
According to the ASN Accident Description, "Go-around power was added at 14.45:35" The pilot was past the end of the runway by then and into an unmapped part of the A-320's flight control system. What is "an unmapped part of the A-320's flight control system" supposed to mean?!? Just prior to the pilot adding go-around power, the airplane was in an aerodynamic regime that had been encountered many times previously -- airspeed between stall and Vref, with a slight rate of descent (approx 375 fpm, from last datapoint), engines at idle. How could it be that the flight control system was "unmapped" in that aerodynamic regime?!? I am quite certain that the A-320's certification included slow flight and approaches to stalls, and that its flight control system is well able to handle them. I suppose this is an addendum to your claims in another thread that If your F-105 is capable of doing something inside its flight envelope, it is normal operation. and An example of an abnormal operation is the cobra manouver, as the flight controls are altered from normal operation. and Nope, the operator's handbook describes the flight envelope. I don't think you have a clue as to what a flight envelope really is! |
#135
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John R Weiss wrote:
"Tarver Engineering" wrote... snip An example of an abnormal operation is the cobra manouver, as the flight controls are altered from normal operation. and Nope, the operator's handbook describes the flight envelope. I don't think you have a clue as to what a flight envelope really is! John, you're statement above implies that 'he who must not be named' has a clue about something. Do you wish to rephrase? ;-) Guy |
#136
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From: "John R Weiss"
"Tarver Engineering" wrote... According to the ASN Accident Description, "Go-around power was added at 14.45:35" The pilot was past the end of the runway by then and into an unmapped part of the A-320's flight control system. What is "an unmapped part of the A-320's flight control system" supposed to mean?!? Just prior to the pilot adding go-around power, the airplane was in an aerodynamic regime that had been encountered many times previously -- airspeed between stall and Vref, with a slight rate of descent (approx 375 fpm, from last datapoint), engines at idle. How could it be that the flight control system was "unmapped" in that aerodynamic regime?!? I am quite certain that the A-320's certification included slow flight and approaches to stalls, and that its flight control system is well able to handle them. I suppose this is an addendum to your claims in another thread that If your F-105 is capable of doing something inside its flight envelope, it is normal operation. and An example of an abnormal operation is the cobra manouver, as the flight controls are altered from normal operation. and Nope, the operator's handbook describes the flight envelope. I don't think you have a clue as to what a flight envelope really is! Sure he does, he thinks it's the little envelope they give you with your boarding pass. Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired |
#137
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"John R Weiss" wrote in message news:j1f%b.60182$4o.83386@attbi_s52... "Tarver Engineering" wrote... According to the ASN Accident Description, "Go-around power was added at 14.45:35" The pilot was past the end of the runway by then and into an unmapped part of the A-320's flight control system. What is "an unmapped part of the A-320's flight control system" supposed to mean?!? Airbus hadn't programmed their A-320 to do what the operator commanded. Just prior to the pilot adding go-around power, the airplane was in an aerodynamic regime that had been encountered many times previously -- airspeed between stall and Vref, with a slight rate of descent (approx 375 fpm, from last datapoint), engines at idle. How could it be that the flight control system was "unmapped" in that aerodynamic regime?!? That is a good question. I am quite certain that the A-320's certification included slow flight and approaches to stalls, and that its flight control system is well able to handle them. Then you have departed from reality. |
#138
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"Guy Alcala" wrote in message . .. John R Weiss wrote: "Tarver Engineering" wrote... snip An example of an abnormal operation is the cobra manouver, as the flight controls are altered from normal operation. and Nope, the operator's handbook describes the flight envelope. I don't think you have a clue as to what a flight envelope really is! John, you're statement above implies that 'he who must not be named' has a clue about something. Do you wish to rephrase? ;-) That would be a fact. |
#139
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"John R Weiss" wrote in message news:aXe%b.122167$jk2.532687@attbi_s53... "Tarver Engineering" wrote... The days of turning off the autopilot and flying the airplane yourself are long gone. For the F-22, yep. For the F-106, yep. This is not some new idea that snuck up on you Weiss. |
#140
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