If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
SSA National Convention, every year, every other?
Questions of costs and benefits, and preferences: Who benefits from annual SSA national convention? Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual show, vs the cost to them to go? Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it cost/benefit justified? Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually? How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners, party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As a vendor? As an SSA member? Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention, as a SSA member or as a vendor ? Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions? Does SSA make money? If so, how much? Does host club or committee make money? If so, how much? Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended to justify annual efforts? How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004? Year before that? Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes. Can I go annually. No way. Can others? Would every other year be just as good, and regional or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did. Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were every other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer? How? Your ideas, preferences? Kindest regards. Dancing on clouds, Keep it up! Jim Culp USA Asw-20c/Std Libelle Gatorcity Florida |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
IMHO.......
I have made my case to many in the SSA and others...I hope the powers to be are listening.... I think the SSA does OK with the conventions....at least, it's the feather in their cap to have their name known and seen as the spotlight feature for these events.....and the cost to the SSA (and I speak here as the office itself, not specifically the organization (us) as a whole...) are relatively low. As a small vendor (we are all small vendors if we are selling sailplanes and sailplane related supplies...big fish, very small pond) the costs to attend these events are very high....every turn you make in one of these convention centers you'll find someone with another charge. Aside from simple exhibition space costs itself, if you need a table.it's $150 +, a chair $60...electricity on a simple extension cord almost $100...telephone service or internet hook-up..forget it, either of these might cost you $500 for 3 days!..on and on....I shipped boxes of items to display, the cost to ship big boxes by UPS or FedEx insured costs lots of $$........then, on top of this the convention center charges you $50 +++ just to receive the box!...convention centers are expensive, convention center hotels are expensive, travel is expensive.....I honestly can't say being there can or does ever generate the business necessary to cover the cost to do these.....not being there probably also has a negative effect as it then looks like you're not really in business if your customers don't find you there..... Personally, I don't really go to the convention with the intention of selling products there (it's far easier to do this and ship from here) but many non-soaring businesses do, I go there hopefully just to show what's available, to let visitors touch and see things close up and compare for themselves so there's really no profit for these events to cover these cost directly from the convention itself.....and, like most of us, we miss customer calls from our places of business when we're there...It's also not easy to give good answers to everyone who stops by and some visitors get put off by this too...it can't always be helped. The nuts and bolts of this are that there really isn't enough new or exciting stuff to put on display every year to make these really worthwhile for the vendors..or, more importantly, for the members and visitors who attend these events.... I have suggested we do these every 2 years....every year is just too much (IMHO)...nearly all of the exhibitors I spoke with agree.....the SSA I hope will listen......We have essentially the same speakers giving mostly the same (sales pitch) talks as they did the year before and the year before that too.....granted, there are new and fresh speakers, a few new topics to ponder and my hat comes off to those you do prepare and work hard to try to make their talks interesting and entertaining......many are there though to self serve and have their own infomercial under the guise of some technical topic....most of us see through this. I really think a great event for the conventions would be a used glider sale.....we could easily have dozens of anxious sellers with their gliders on display and hundreds of anxious buyers with a single shopping center at their fingertips to compare in a single place....the SSA could (I think if they don't have the proper tax status get the NSM, SRA or SSF who might have access to this status to run this) even auction off gliders donated by their owners as charitable (read: Tax write-off) contributions.....now that would get some excitement going!.....and new owners do add life to the sport! Moving gliders between owners and want-to-be-owners also helps the sport....just my idea... anyway...I may not be popular with some for these comments...but it is my (our) sport and organizations...I think we all need to make these opinions known....to our fellow members, and our officers as well.... sorry to be so lengthy......I could go on.I won't Respectfully Tim Wings & Wheels www.wingsandwheels.com "Jim Culp" wrote in message ... Questions of costs and benefits, and preferences: Who benefits from annual SSA national convention? Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual show, vs the cost to them to go? Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it cost/benefit justified? Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually? How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners, party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As a vendor? As an SSA member? Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention, as a SSA member or as a vendor ? Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions? Does SSA make money? If so, how much? Does host club or committee make money? If so, how much? Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended to justify annual efforts? How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004? Year before that? Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes. Can I go annually. No way. Can others? Would every other year be just as good, and regional or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did. Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were every other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer? How? Your ideas, preferences? Kindest regards. Dancing on clouds, Keep it up! Jim Culp USA Asw-20c/Std Libelle Gatorcity Florida |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
IMHO.......
I have made my case to many in the SSA and others...I hope the powers to be are listening.... I think the SSA does OK with the conventions....at least, it's the feather in their cap to have their name known and seen as the spotlight feature for these events.....and the cost to the SSA (and I speak here as the office itself, not specifically the organization (us) as a whole...) are relatively low. As a small vendor (we are all small vendors if we are selling sailplanes and sailplane related supplies...big fish, very small pond) the costs to attend these events are very high....every turn you make in one of these convention centers you'll find someone with another charge. Aside from simple exhibition space costs itself, if you need a table.it's $150 +, a chair $60...electricity on a simple extension cord almost $100...telephone service or internet hook-up..forget it, either of these might cost you $500 for 3 days!..on and on....I shipped boxes of items to display, the cost to ship big boxes by UPS or FedEx insured costs lots of $$........then, on top of this the convention center charges you $50 +++ just to receive the box!...convention centers are expensive, convention center hotels are expensive, travel is expensive.....I honestly can't say being there can or does ever generate the business necessary to cover the cost to do these.....not being there probably also has a negative effect as it then looks like you're not really in business if your customers don't find you there..... Personally, I don't really go to the convention with the intention of selling products there (it's far easier to do this and ship from here) but many non-soaring businesses do, I go there hopefully just to show what's available, to let visitors touch and see things close up and compare for themselves so there's really no profit for these events to cover these cost directly from the convention itself.....and, like most of us, we miss customer calls from our places of business when we're there...It's also not easy to give good answers to everyone who stops by and some visitors get put off by this too...it can't always be helped. The nuts and bolts of this are that there really isn't enough new or exciting stuff to put on display every year to make these really worthwhile for the vendors..or, more importantly, for the members and visitors who attend these events.... I have suggested we do these every 2 years....every year is just too much (IMHO)...nearly all of the exhibitors I spoke with agree.....the SSA I hope will listen......We have essentially the same speakers giving mostly the same (sales pitch) talks as they did the year before and the year before that too.....granted, there are new and fresh speakers, a few new topics to ponder and my hat comes off to those you do prepare and work hard to try to make their talks interesting and entertaining......many are there though to self serve and have their own infomercial under the guise of some technical topic....most of us see through this. I really think a great event for the conventions would be a used glider sale.....we could easily have dozens of anxious sellers with their gliders on display and hundreds of anxious buyers with a single shopping center at their fingertips to compare in a single place....the SSA could (I think if they don't have the proper tax status get the NSM, SRA or SSF who might have access to this status to run this) even auction off gliders donated by their owners as charitable (read: Tax write-off) contributions.....now that would get some excitement going!.....and new owners do add life to the sport! Moving gliders between owners and want-to-be-owners also helps the sport....just my idea... anyway...I may not be popular with some for these comments...but it is my (our) sport and organizations...I think we all need to make these opinions known....to our fellow members, and our officers as well.... sorry to be so lengthy......I could go on.I won't Respectfully Tim Wings & Wheels www.wingsandwheels.com "Jim Culp" wrote in message ... Questions of costs and benefits, and preferences: Who benefits from annual SSA national convention? Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual show, vs the cost to them to go? Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it cost/benefit justified? Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually? How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners, party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As a vendor? As an SSA member? Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention, as a SSA member or as a vendor ? Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions? Does SSA make money? If so, how much? Does host club or committee make money? If so, how much? Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended to justify annual efforts? How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004? Year before that? Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes. Can I go annually. No way. Can others? Would every other year be just as good, and regional or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did. Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were every other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer? How? Your ideas, preferences? Kindest regards. Dancing on clouds, Keep it up! Jim Culp USA Asw-20c/Std Libelle Gatorcity Florida |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Very good question, Jim
The last one I went to was "Local" (as in only 1000 mile drive). I spent $1000 bucks and didn't buy anything. I have been on a "Every 5 year", schedule for about the last 20 years, now. They're nice, but not very. JJ Sinclair |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Hey Jim,
Here's a member opinion for what it's worth. During 26 years of SSA membership, I have attended 3 conventions (Valley Forge, Chicago, Dayton). This was dictated wholly by convenience (can I get there easily and within the contraints of my work schedule?). I enjoyed myself each time, but more for the opportunity of chance meetings with old friends. The petting zoo is nice... but there really isn't enough new under the sun to justify a visit solely to see gliders and related paraphernalia, and certainly not once a year. The presentations have changed little over the years. Every convention features something new, but for the most part, we're hearing tales oft told. This is great for new members, but a better balance of new and golden oldies would be preferable. If staging the event every other year helps this, I am all for it. If I had the sense that a convention had many new, interesting products and insights to offer, I might be enticed to make it a regular pilgrimage. Under the current formula, I'm coming once every 8 years. OC |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Very good questions Jim. SSA could find out what membership thinks
about annual conventions by doing a survey. USHGA has recently done three online surveys and you can see the results at: http://www.ushga.org/ballot3_results.asp After "ballot" replace the "3" with 1 or 2 to see the other surveys. Cu skies, Steve LS-3a, Arcus XL Jim Culp wrote in message ... Questions of costs and benefits, and preferences: Who benefits from annual SSA national convention? Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual show, vs the cost to them to go? Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it cost/benefit justified? Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually? How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners, party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As a vendor? As an SSA member? Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention, as a SSA member or as a vendor ? Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions? Does SSA make money? If so, how much? Does host club or committee make money? If so, how much? Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended to justify annual efforts? How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004? Year before that? Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes. Can I go annually. No way. Can others? Would every other year be just as good, and regional or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did. Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were every other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer? How? Your ideas, preferences? Kindest regards. Dancing on clouds, Keep it up! Jim Culp USA Asw-20c/Std Libelle Gatorcity Florida |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
I've only been in gliding since '98 and have attended two conventions
(Albuquerque and Ontario). Ontario gave me the opportunity to go back and forth between two gliders and finally make up my mind which to order (g). The problem with going to less frequent conventions is that, for those unwilling to travel far to attend, reasonably close conventions are already infrequent. How about some "open air" conventions held at major soaring sites using a similar format to airshows and fly-ins? That would help keep costs down, promote soaring sites, and put more money and recognition for soaring into the smaller economic environments where we live and play. Let's do one at Minden! -- bumper ZZ (reverse all after @) "Dare to be different . . . circle in sink." "Tim Mara" wrote in message ... IMHO....... I have made my case to many in the SSA and others...I hope the powers to be are listening.... I think the SSA does OK with the conventions....at least, it's the feather in their cap to have their name known and seen as the spotlight feature for these events.....and the cost to the SSA (and I speak here as the office itself, not specifically the organization (us) as a whole...) are relatively low. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
What Tim says is very true, we are in a survival mode
and costs have to be watched. Since the content of the convention necessarily has little change year-to-year, annual conventions for the whole existing membership don't make much sense. But the whole membership does not attend, because of the rotation round the country. What we really have right now is the cost of an annual convention for the vendors, but the potential attendance of only one-third of the already small membership each year. A suggestion: if a few vendors experimented with either Oshkosh or another major EAA event instead, would the still-high costs be better repaid by the much larger audience ? And instead of preaching only to the choir, there would be the rest of the congregation who might be encouraged to singalong ? Ian At 05:48 06 March 2004, Tim Mara wrote: IMHO....... I have made my case to many in the SSA and others...I hope the powers to be are listening.... I think the SSA does OK with the conventions....at least, it's the feather in their cap to have their name known and seen as the spotlight feature for these events.....and the cost to the SSA (and I speak here as the office itself, not specifically the organization (us) as a whole...) are relatively low. As a small vendor (we are all small vendors if we are selling sailplanes and sailplane related supplies...big fish, very small pond) the costs to attend these events are very high....every turn you make in one of these convention centers you'll find someone with another charge. Aside from simple exhibition space costs itself, if you need a table.it's $150 +, a chair $60...electricity on a simple extension cord almost $100...telephone service or internet hook-up..forget it, either of these might cost you $500 for 3 days!..on and on....I shipped boxes of items to display, the cost to ship big boxes by UPS or FedEx insured costs lots of $$........then, on top of this the convention center charges you $50 +++ just to receive the box!...convention centers are expensive, convention center hotels are expensive, travel is expensive.....I honestly can't say being there can or does ever generate the business necessary to cover the cost to do these.....not being there probably also has a negative effect as it then looks like you're not really in business if your customers don't find you there..... Personally, I don't really go to the convention with the intention of selling products there (it's far easier to do this and ship from here) but many non-soaring businesses do, I go there hopefully just to show what's available, to let visitors touch and see things close up and compare for themselves so there's really no profit for these events to cover these cost directly from the convention itself.....and, like most of us, we miss customer calls from our places of business when we're there...It's also not easy to give good answers to everyone who stops by and some visitors get put off by this too...it can't always be helped. The nuts and bolts of this are that there really isn't enough new or exciting stuff to put on display every year to make these really worthwhile for the vendors..or, more importantly, for the members and visitors who attend these events.... I have suggested we do these every 2 years....every year is just too much (IMHO)...nearly all of the exhibitors I spoke with agree.....the SSA I hope will listen......We have essentially the same speakers giving mostly the same (sales pitch) talks as they did the year before and the year before that too.....granted, there are new and fresh speakers, a few new topics to ponder and my hat comes off to those you do prepare and work hard to try to make their talks interesting and entertaining......many are there though to self serve and have their own infomercial under the guise of some technical topic....most of us see through this. I really think a great event for the conventions would be a used glider sale.....we could easily have dozens of anxious sellers with their gliders on display and hundreds of anxious buyers with a single shopping center at their fingertips to compare in a single place....the SSA could (I think if they don't have the proper tax status get the NSM, SRA or SSF who might have access to this status to run this) even auction off gliders donated by their owners as charitable (read: Tax write-off) contributions.....now that would get some excitement going!.....and new owners do add life to the sport! Moving gliders between owners and want-to-be-owners also helps the sport....just my idea... anyway...I may not be popular with some for these comments...but it is my (our) sport and organizations...I think we all need to make these opinions known....to our fellow members, and our officers as well.... sorry to be so lengthy......I could go on.I won't Respectfully Tim Wings & Wheels www.wingsandwheels.com 'Jim Culp' wrote in message ... Questions of costs and benefits, and preferences: Who benefits from annual SSA national convention? Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual show, vs the cost to them to go? Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it cost/benefit justified? Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually? How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners, party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As a vendor? As an SSA member? Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention, as a SSA member or as a vendor ? Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions? Does SSA make money? If so, how much? Does host club or committee make money? If so, how much? Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended to justify annual efforts? How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004? Year before that? Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes. Can I go annually. No way. Can others? Would every other year be just as good, and regional or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did. Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were every other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer? How? Your ideas, preferences? Kindest regards. Dancing on clouds, Keep it up! Jim Culp USA Asw-20c/Std Libelle Gatorcity Florida |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
At 03:06 06 March 2004, Jim Culp wrote:
Questions of costs and benefits, and preferences: Who benefits from annual SSA national convention? The CFI renewal clinic is especially useful. It puts us together with other instructors to talk about issues, etc. Granted, we do that only every other year, but half of those who use it would be on the wrong cycle, and I'm not sure whether those who put it on would be willing to have double the registration. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
The idea that there are too many conventions reminds me of the person
who notices that there are 17 brands of toothpaste on the shelf, and insists the other 16 should be eliminated because he never uses them. I believe the conventions are a big money maker for the SSA and the clubs putting them on. Vendors may complain about the costs, but no one is forcing them to attend. If they feel the conventions should only be held every other year, they are welcome to just attend every other year. bumper wrote: I've only been in gliding since '98 and have attended two conventions (Albuquerque and Ontario). Ontario gave me the opportunity to go back and forth between two gliders and finally make up my mind which to order (g). The problem with going to less frequent conventions is that, for those unwilling to travel far to attend, reasonably close conventions are already infrequent. How about some "open air" conventions held at major soaring sites using a similar format to airshows and fly-ins? That would help keep costs down, promote soaring sites, and put more money and recognition for soaring into the smaller economic environments where we live and play. Let's do one at Minden! |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Soaring Society of America National Convention, Feb 10-12 Ontario,CA | Jim Skydell | Home Built | 1 | January 31st 05 04:33 AM |
Soaring Society of America National Convention, Feb 10-12 Ontario,CA | Jim Skydell | Piloting | 0 | January 29th 05 07:57 PM |
Bush's Attempt to Usurp the Constitution | WalterM140 | Military Aviation | 20 | July 2nd 04 04:09 PM |
bush rules! | Be Kind | Military Aviation | 53 | February 14th 04 04:26 PM |
Cherokee National Fly-In & Convention | Don | General Aviation | 0 | December 12th 03 06:57 AM |